Knocking sounds from engine

[haggis905]

Tom,

This may sound like a stupid question, but you do that when the bike is NOT running, correct?

But it should work if it is adjusted correctly. I pull them out and use a pencil pushed in the hole eraser end first to see if the cam chain is making all the noise. Push just the right amount, if there is a certain amount of push where the noise all goes away, I know it is the tensioner.

*Disclaimer* This technique is not recommended for use by others, if you forget to push, the chain skips a few tooth, very expensive bad things happen.

[tkent02]

Tom,

This may sound like a stupid question, but you do that when the bike is NOT running, correct?

No, I do it while it's idling. Might need a helper to hit the starter, if you still have the silly clutch switch hooked up... You have to push the tensioner shoe in the whole time the engine is turning or the chain will skip...

But really that is unnecessary, you have a tensioner in place. Much safer. Loosen the locknut, let the engine idle, turn the bolt in. I like to use a stethoscope to set the manual tensioners, but really just to see if your major noise goes away it is not needed. Just turn the screw in and listen.

It seems very likely this is your noise, if one owner put on that manual tensioner, and the next guy didn't know about it, it WILL be making noise in ten or twenty thousand miles. LOUD NOISE! These chains and guides do wear, that's why the automatic tensioners were invented..

That tensioner looks fine to me, a threaded plate bolted to the cylinder, just like the expensive modern ones. The only thing they have that's better is blue or green anodization.

It just needs an adjustment every year or so, when ever you check the valve clearances would probably do.

[haggis905]

So I tightened the tensioner some then fired the bike up again. The sound was worse than it was before, so, running @ 1K rpm, I pulled in the clutch and the sound goes away completely. Release it and its back. Looks like I am pulling the clutch to see whats going on.

my 1000 just started doing it about 2 weeks ago so i'll be getting my basket done this spring that is kinda how i am just about completely positive that this is what you are hearing

Spyderman,

Should I be looking for a machine shop to have the new rivets welded in? I have never been down this road before.

if i heard that right and i'm fairly sure i did
that is from the clutch basket rattling does it go away if you up the idle to about 1500 rpm if so then it's the clutch basket and not too worrisome you will need to pull it and have the springs replaced and new rivets welded in to it then put it back in and away you go

[tkent02]

So I tightened the tensioner some then fired the bike up again. The sound was worse than it was before, so, running @ 1K rpm, I pulled in the clutch and the sound goes away completely. Release it and its back. Looks like I am pulling the clutch to see whats going on.

So a clutch rattle, good news, it's easy to fix. Hopefully you got an otherwise good engine, then?

Could be the big clutch hub nut is loose, could be the springs in the back of the basket are loose. (they usually are)
The basket can be rebuilt, by pros or DIY, up to you.

I think it's about $300 to have it done.

[haggis905]

Thanks Tom. The engine sounds good so I think it is a matter of rebuilding the clutch then working through the carb syncing, etc. I am thinking I am going to see about doing the work myself so that I have a better understanding of the workings of the clutch.

Once I get the oil drained (so much for just replacing it) I will pull the clutch cover and take some pictures.

So a clutch rattle, good news, it's easy to fix. Hopefully you got an otherwise good engine, then?

Could be the big clutch hub nut is loose, could be the springs in the back of the basket are loose. (they usually are)
The basket can be rebuilt, by pros or DIY, up to you.

I think it's about $300 to have it done.

[tkent02]

Thanks Tom. The engine sounds good so I think it is a matter of rebuilding the clutch then working through the carb syncing, etc. I am thinking I am going to see about doing the work myself so that I have a better understanding of the workings of the clutch.

Once I get the oil drained (so much for just replacing it) I will pull the clutch cover and take some pictures.

Don't even need to drain the oil, set the bike on the sidestand and pop the cover.
It will drip a little bit, but the oil level is much lower than the cover.
If you find the springs in the basket are too short and loose, there is a temporary fix of dubious value that sometimes works for a little while...

http://members.dslextreme.com/users/storagecliff/images/quick_clutch_rattle_repair_by_tkent02.pdf

[Spyderman]

Don't even need to drain the oil, set the bike on the sidestand and pop the cover.
It will drip a little bit, but the oil level is much lower than the cover.
If you find the springs in the basket are too short and loose, there is a temporary fix of dubious value that sometimes works for a little while...
http://members.dslextreme.com/users/...by_tkent02.pdf

interesting tkent how many miles went on that after you did it ??
there are kits that can be bought for the 1000 basket
i'm lucky enough to have a friend who is a GS specialist he is a builder and racer of the 1000's and has a great little shop with full machining capabilities so i don't have to worry because what ever i can't do he can including a rebuild on my clutch basket this winter
for an interim fix try tkent's little trick and then find a kit and a good mechanic that can trust to do the work
i 'm glad that you now know what it is i knew i recognized that sound
it's also not the right fix but for now you can also just up the idle to about 1400 or so and it should make the noise go away at least it has worked for me on mine till i can get it fixed
my other 1000 when i had it on the road had this problem and it ran for a year and about 20,000 km before i had it fixed and it never gave me a problem
i have over the years heard many 1000's that make this noise it's a common problem with them but not a serious one i have never heard of a basket letting go on the 1000's not to say they haven't i just have never seen it on a daily rider race bike on the other had is a different story

[tkent02]

interesting tkent how many miles went on that after you did it ??

I've done it to about four GS 1000s now, one got silent, the rest got somewhat quieter than they were, not quite silent.

Seems a good temp fix while you look for an Ebay basket, or while you send another clutch off to an expert. On the other hand, letting it rattle for a while is OK too, as long as it's not rattling due to a loose hub nut.

A better fix would be to replace the springs, or at least shim them tighter.

One more thing, a very good carb synch will lower the RPM where it starts to rattle, maybe lower it so low you never hear it.

[Spyderman]

I've done it to about four GS 1000s now, one got silent, the rest got somewhat quieter than they were, not quite silent.

Seems a good temp fix while you look for an Ebay basket, or while you send another clutch off to an expert. On the other hand, letting it rattle for a while is OK too, as long as it's not rattling due to a loose hub nut.

A better fix would be to replace the springs, or at least shim them tighter.

One more thing, a very good carb synch will lower the RPM where it starts to rattle, maybe lower it so low you never hear it.

that is interesting thanks for the info my season is just about to an end here so i might not get a chance to try it but if i do i'll let you know what happens with it
i agree that replacing the springs is the proper way to go but for a fix till the end of the season it's worth a try
as for another basket i have a spare on hand so i'll give it a quick fix and then swap em out and send the other one off to be re-sprung and welded
thanks
and i agree a good carb sync does really go a long way to making it go away

[haggis905]

TKent/Spyderman,

Thanks for all the great information. I think that I have a lot of reading ahead of me. I tend to absorb as much information as I can possibly find before taking that first step. The first time I took of the top half of my 1150 I spent a month reading on what needed to be done and what to look out for.

Spyderman, is your mechanic friend interested in extra business? If my clutch needs rebuilding I would rather have someone experienced rebuild it then try to find someone locally that i cannot verify the quality of their work.

[haggis905]

Update: The nut was one full turn from falling off. I am going to tear down the rest of the clutch and do a complete inspection. Thanks again Tom and Spyderman, looks like I get to learn something new, which I look forward to.

[tkent02]

The nut was one full turn from falling off.

Ouch !

[81gs1100]

I just had the same thing, however my nut was only about 1 turn loose. The lock washer luckly was still bent over the edge of the nut, however the threads were rolled over enough that the nut was way loose, I figure about a turn. Grabbed my nut OEM nut and torqued it down, replaced the stock cover fasteners with allen heads.. and sounds quiet as can be, which now I hear a different sound I don't like.

I soft shallow bonk about every 5 engine rotations. I'm hoping its exahust, sounds like a handball bouncing off the bike.

[81gs1100]

Update: The nut was one full turn from falling off. I am going to tear down the rest of the clutch and do a complete inspection. Thanks again Tom and Spyderman, looks like I get to learn something new, which I look forward to.

Be sure to buy a new lock washer, unless you still have a good side to bend over to keep the nut from loosening by rotation again.

[haggis905]

The washer was barely bent up on one side so I know that's why the nut loosened. Need to go pick up a 32mm socket (more tools!!) and get the allen heads for the cover.

Be sure to buy a new lock washer, unless you still have a good side to bend over to keep the nut from loosening by rotation again.