Weird charging problems

[Matchless]

Do you have a pet sparky?
If you do get them to do an insulation resistance test. That will tell you if the insulation is damaged.
Cheers

If you can borrow a megger from someone you can test the insulation to ground with the stator in situ, but you will not be able to test for winding short circuit or low insulation between windings. These are commonly used by your telecom guys for testing cables and open wires, they all have one.

Burnt windings are visually easy to see.

I just wish we could have positively told you the stator is definitely faulty without seeing it and having it in front of us. Pity you are not closer, I would have been able to rewind yours if necessary.

[Steve]

During the course of this entire thread you have still not answered the questions concerning the condition of your battery?

i tested the system with a good car battery and got similar results. do you think that is enough to rule the battery out as a suspect?

The charging system on your bike does not have the capacity to recharge a car battery.

Al, back in the first part of his testing (in the link that's in his first post on this thread), I am the one that suggested he try a fully-charged battery out of his car. My reasoning was that if the bike battery was bad, this would show up rather quickly.
Not sure why the bike's charging system won't charge a car battery, though. True it might take a lot longer, depending on how far discharged the battery is, but a battery that is in a car that is driven regularly can be presumed to be reasonably well-charged. If you connect the bike to the car battery, then start the bike and run it, using only the car battery, it would still show the same symptoms if the problem was not in the battery. Because of the larger capacity of the car battery, the voltage would drop slower, but it should still drop. He confirmed those findings in post #126 and there was further discussion that still threw the suspicion in the direction of the stator.
He also mentioned in post #41 that it was a Honda R/R (lower failure rate), but he also went to the extent of mentioning in post #107 that he got another Honda R/R from Duaneage and the results were the same. If a different battery and a different R/R still show the same symptoms, the problem is either in the stator or the wiring. He claims to have checked all the wiring and has now shown photos of a highly-suspect stator. I think the problem has been found.

.

[posplayr]

Is that just melted insulation or a shorted pole?

It is just a matter of time and it will be both if it is not already.

[Matchless]

I missed the post with the pictures when the thread jumped to the next page.

In general your stator does not show excessive signs of overheating except for that one pole what seems like bare copper showing. The heavy layer of resin over the windings may be hiding it on other poles. Is that winding wire broken, I could not zoom in enough, if so then it definitely is your fault!

A fault like that could intermittently short to the ground or short out between the windings when the copper expands and moves due to heat or it could show a permanent fault.

Every third pole is the same phase, with 6 of them in series. Look at those closely for more signs of overheating. It will likely be one phase only, the one with the pole showing damage and its other 5 friends.

You will find that the burnt pole is most likely the one that was wired via the headlight switch.

Just for info. Suzuki used different colour wires from the stator to the R/R to ensure that a specific pole was always wired via the switch as some of the early R/R's only used a single SCR on one phase only for regulation. I think these were phased out at the end of the 70's, from the 80's on all 3 phases were regulated. They did not want to switch out regulation when the lights were off.

My suggestion: I would not refit a stator with that sort of damage and will replace or rewind it. So even with all your tests not conclusively identifying the stator, it needs to be replaced and will most likely sort out your problem.

Keep well.

[duaneage]

i just helped someone who thought a RR I sent them was bad fix their bike. The stator wires were pinched by a cover and wreaked havoc with the charging system.

Measure the resistance from each stator wire lead to the engine case and if you get a reading you may have a wire pinched somewhere. Do this with the three stator leads disconnected from the RR>

[psyguy]

battery ok

i have taken the battery to the car electritian and it checked all rigth for voltage, load test and electrolyte specific gravity.

i am planning to replace the stator next and will post the results here.
it may take a while though as i need to see if there may be anyone locally who can rewind the stator - the new one would cost me US$140 + $40 shipping

[KiwiGS]

You should have plenty of places up there to rewind that stator.
If you cant find anyone I could ask these guys for a price.
Cheers

[psyguy]

You should have plenty of places up there to rewind that stator.
If you cant find anyone I could ask these guys for a price.
Cheers

i have contacted couple of places in auckland and they want NZ$220 with no warranty given.
rick's motorsport new stator incl shipping from the usa comes to NZ$250

may go for the new one after all...

[KiwiGS]

i have contacted couple of places in auckland and they want NZ$220 with no warranty given.
rick's motorsport new stator incl shipping from the usa comes to NZ$250

may go for the new one after all...

Fair enough mate.
Is the Rick's one a higher output than stock?

[Matchless]

psyguy,
PM me if you want a fairly complete guide on rewinding your stator
Keep well

[psyguy]

Is the Rick's one a higher output than stock?

dunno. i asked up here about rewinding it for a higher output but they recon because the original stator is so tightly packed that they could not up it by more than 5%.

but as matchless suggested even the original should be able to put through 15amps and with the total draw on the bike being 7 or so amps it should be plenty now that i have an upgraded RR. i hope, that is

[psyguy]

psyguy,
PM me if you want a fairly complete guide on rewinding your stator
Keep well

thanks. i think i'll pass on doing this myself, already have other projects asking more of my time...

[Matchless]

thanks. i think i'll pass on doing this myself, already have other projects asking more of my time...

Yes for that you will need a lot of time.. and patience. Our rewinders are not interested and I now know why!
Hope you find one for a reasonable price soon.
Keep well.

[Speedo]

psyguy,
holy jezu man ('mate' i guess to translate - go AllBlacks!) I am experiencing a somewhat similar problem, but nowhere NEAR the ordeal you have gone through (I read your whole thread several time). Here is mine in case you can/want to weigh in.

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=149740

My point to even post here (as I can add nowhere near the knowledge/value that guys like Matchless, Steve, KiwiGS, etc, etc can) is this.

Asyou have gone through the trouble to tilt bike, take cover off, and eyeball stator (which I am dreading and hope i do not have to do), why not think about replacing it EVEN IF it didn't look "suspect" (which of course it did)?

My thinking is, and I know a couple hundred bucks is real money, but our bikes are old anyway so it would well worth it to replace with new becasue at this point you have invested so much time and have faced so much aggrevation etc, that it would worth the $$ to "KNOW" that, if the problem persists (I sincerely hope not), it it NOT due to stator.

BTW, BikeCliff's site has an excellent pictoral/write up on replacing stator on his GS850....might be helpful to you.

Good luck, let us know what you do and how it works out!

[psyguy]

thanks andrew... mate

i have just ordered a new stator from rick's.

i guess it might take a while for me to get over the $40 shipping, eh