Stator Paper Caper: Shunted & Stumped!

[Speedo]

Ah Shucks

Thanks again to all and will keep you posted. Any other advise / stuff to check and/or fix is hugely appreciated.

I was really hoping NOT to have to go thru the PITA of cleaning everything, etc, etc.

(OK, if this works, thanks BassCliff - ur site's user documentation is excellent - even tho I am trying Picasa as opposed to Photobucket, I think I could translate due to clarity you have; I highly recommend it to all others as cornfused as I am about the whole posting pics thing...)

Anyway, here how the RR wiring looks at moment:

http://picasaweb.google.com/andrewpogany/RecentlyUpdated?authkey=Gv1sRgCM7tnemctYCymAE#5388920808132486674

http://picasaweb.google.com/andrewpogany/RecentlyUpdated?authkey=Gv1sRgCM7tnemctYCymAE#5388920675037786770

But alas, I guess a little housecleaning is due. I've had "Suzi" for 20 years and after totally obsessing on so much stuff - almost everything really - over 15yrs ago that I can't even remember all the stuff (and this includes wiring a stealth "black out" mode into headlight switch - "OFF" means like off for ALL lights, including brakelights, all except rear brake light (which is easy to safely not use) - look, not saying it was a smart idea at the time, but I just wanted to see if I could figure it out/do it using the Clymer/stock wiring diagrams. I could and I did (and actually, it all still works fine notwithstanding my overall charging sys issues).

Well I guess it is time to give 'ol Suz a good once over all over again. Here are 2 crappy pics in the shed in case anyone cares. Cramped, lighting was bad, she's dirty as hell and I didn't want to pull her out and disrupt the diagnostic "massage" that is going on.

http://picasaweb.google.com/andrewpogany/RecentlyUpdated?authkey=Gv1sRgCM7tnemctYCymAE#5388920543433041906

http://picasaweb.google.com/andrewpogany/RecentlyUpdated?authkey=Gv1sRgCM7tnemctYCymAE#5388920354103508994

[BassCliff]

[Speedo]

thanks basscliff

this is my bike. thx to basscliff, I get how to attach pix now. very nice of you to get my back on this post....

[BassCliff]

this is my bike. thx to basscliff, I get how to attach pix now. very nice of you to get my back on this post....

Sorry if I spoiled your fun.



Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

[psyguy]

a couple of things that i learnt from the good gsr guys while tracing my charging problems are:

• your battery can have good voltage and still not be fully charged (and this will affect your charging voltage readings) - so to conduct definite tests on the charging system firt have the batt tested by an automotive electritian
• the stator can test ok for voltage output but still be unable to produce enough current to meet the demand of the headlight current draw

[Speedo]

BassCliff - thx for patience and advice. I will be starting the mega wire cleaning deal tomorrow. Today I tried to address the power wire. I don't think my bike HAS a fusebox. If it does, where is it? (review pics u helped with below). It looks like just one main fuse to me.

Anyway, back to RR pos wire. I am planning on a deeper diagnostic later this afternoon, but as of this a.m. I cannot tell where the heck that RR pos goes and/or how the heck it is getting to battery! It almost looks like it is tied into a wire that goes up to front of bike (to switches? can't tell yet). Not sure if relevant, but I see no "sense" wire from RR, so must be a 5 wire then? Can POS as wired have anythign to do with not have a sense wire? My guess at moment is my old mechanic wired RR pos to swiched pos wire since there is no sense wire.

BTW, so how does the RR "sense" load then w/o a sense wire?

Bottom line right now is that I am too scared to rewire RR pos. Should I be? What bad things can happen if any?

[Speedo]

psyguy - thanks (we musta posted almost simultaneously).

I am still having a really hard time believing it could be the battery since it is almost brand new (like less than 2 months, maybe 60 riding miles on it), I use a self stop trickle charger, was very careful with the acid, etc, BUT to your and several others' point, I cannot load test it or test for shorts like an auto parts store can. So I will remove it, charge it to full, and take a little trip to the autoparts guys with the good testing stuff asap.

The other reason I have a hard time believing it's the battery is because during the last 10 of the 20 yrs ive owned Suzi, it has gone through at least 7 batteries and I have had to constantly recharge them all season. To the point that I have refused to go on any single day rides more that 30 or 40 miles anticipating (from experience) that the battery will go flat and the bike will no longer start and/or start behaving badly (running bad).

As far as stator volts ok, but maybe not enough amps, that theory makes a lot of sense and I will need to test. I will review your thread on how to do that. At least I can do that without having to remove any covers and the like. I will also clean all wiring connections since that is well within my abilities and see if that makes a difference....

[Speedo]

Important CORRECTION

Important CORRECTION: RR is SIX (6) wire. Black wire is scotchlocked (connected) into ORANGE. Orange and looks like a white or greenish white wires both go into the little black cube relay looking thing in the pic below.
Wiring diagram (BassCliff's site, etc) says RR black should tap into Orange and orange goes into fuse box. But again, I see no fusebox.

Can it possibly be that the sense wire is wired incorrectly? How to test?

Can I safely rewire RR RedPOS+ directly to battery (well I guess I can certainly try it, I do have fused wire loop handy rated for 30A, so 15 should be fine I'm thinking, if not, I can put back way it is now)

[Speedo]

One More QQ

a couple of things that i learnt from the good gsr guys while tracing my charging problems are:

• the stator can test ok for voltage output but still be unable to produce enough current to meet the demand of the headlight current draw

One more QQ for now. So how can I test Stator for current/amps (since volt test is good)? I researched PSYGUY's whole thread and could not find it. Did I miss it? Posted somewhere else? Thank you everyone for all your time/help!

[psyguy]

i don't know that that there is any test for the stator current output under load, but as i am positive i have a good battery and wiring and RR, and the stator looks suspicious, i ordered a new one.

taking the stator out IS really easy, put the bike on the centre stand, put the screwdriver through the centrestand to lock it (there is hole there to do so) and put a 2x4 piece of framing wood under the front wheel. the bike is safe and FAR from tipping over but the cover can be taken off without any oil spillage. i tried it myself just the other day.

the sense wire is correctly wired into the orange wire.

don't worry about the fusebox for now (it may likely be a single-fuse model that you have).
just take the RR + wire directly to the batt through an inline fuse. if this doesn't correct the problem you can go back to the way it is wired from the factory - so it goes to the main fuse. this is a good enough setup if all the connections are clean and the wires are good.

[Speedo]

thx for help psyguy.

pretty sure what i have IS a single main fuse model. so the more i think (it's getting harder and harder as i age) about it, there should not be any problem adding another fused hot direct to battery....should pose 0 harm (and to ur point, I can always put it back). I just wish I could tell what the heck the RR hot is plugged into now. But if no matter, then no matter.

Took center stand off yrs ago (along w hacksawing off un-needed frame parts that were only there to bolt stock exhaust to which is never going back on...gives bike cleaner look...can't tell from pix here tho...i'll get around to taking more/posting eventually).

I do have sep stands for rear (dunno brand) and for front (kwiklift) so I'm sure I could rig some sort of lean thing up if it becomes necessary do the stator.

I will also take battery to autoparts store to end that argument/ hopefully eliminate that as a variable in my problem.

thx again.

[psyguy]

I just wish I could tell what the heck the RR hot is plugged into now.

usually, the RR is wired into the fuse (box)

with a bit of patience you can trace the wire from the RR and see where it goes

[gremlin]

add a ground wire from your motor to the frame. then add a ground wire striate to your regulator. get some of the anitsease for spark plugs with the copper in it. use that on your ground connections. the parts store should have a small package of it for a buck or under. just use a very little bit on each connection.

dose your meter have a conutiny setting. it beeps when you touch your LEDs together. use that setting with our bike warmed up to check for fried stator. connect the black to a good ground. and with all three wires from the stator disconnected put the red lead to each wire. it will beep if there is a brake in the varnish coating on the stator. the oil will ground out the stator.

[lucabond]

It sounds like the output of your RR goes to the key switch and then the power gets fed out from there. You might want to take a look at the ignition switch. Try spraying some contact cleaner down inside and work the key back and forth see if that helps. You can take them apart and clean them and check the plug at the bottom and see how that looks.
Good luck

[Speedo]

Progress Update

Thanks to all for a whole bttload of great advice

Update as of today (which ain't over yet....back to bike until dark after this):

1. Battery - Psyguy/several others - confirmed to be "100% good" by local Honda dealer today.

2. Gremlin - yes I have cont test beep on my MM. No beeps testing stator leads to ground w/ bike running, so all looks to be ok on that test

3. Lucabond/psyguy/basscliff et.al: No fuse box. Single main 15A fuse. I have no idea where the RR +POS went to (and back), but went ahead and wired in a direct RR POS to battery, fired it up, and tested to see what worked/what didn't. Everything works w/o this connection, so I guess I'll be not using/taping up 3 wires not just 2 as per BassCliff's deal.

here are results:

Before RR POS+ direct to battery:
Lights OFF: 13.2v idle / 14.0 @ 5k rpm
Lights ON: 12.6 idle / 12.9 @ 5k rpm

After RR POS+ wired direct to battery:
Lights OFF: 13.7v idle / 14.9 - 15.0 at times @ 5k rpm. PROBLEM HERE?
Lights ON: 12.6 idle / 13.3 @ 5k rpm (small but real improvement)

4. Connections cleaning (basscliff) - there are so many connectors on this thing I just wanna cry. So far I have only cleaned up all connections around battery box and RR. Will be working my way toward front of bike.

5. Lastly - perhaps unrelated but maybe and certainly significant: Volts at Coil Test (from Wired George link off BassCliff's site):

1-4 coil: 9.7v (should be 12)
2-3 coil: 9.8v (sb 12)

So looks like, in addition to the connectors cleaning "project", the coil relay rewiring is in line as well. More reading/homework for me!