switch to synthetic oil?

[redliner1973]

I'm using Pennzoil synthetic 5W-50 with no problems. Much improved gearshift.



regards

Unfortunately, Pennzoil 5w-50 isn't available in the States....

[AOD]

I wouldn't drain 300 mile oil unless there was some other reason to do so. If you had particularly dirty or neglected oil in there before, it wouldn't be a bad idea to drain it again now to get the last of the poison out.

well the bike sat for over a year with oil in it before i changed it out. i did the filter at that point, i dont think i'll change the filter this time if i put in synthetic.

i would probably stick to what the book says on this one. 10W40 Mobil 1.

~Adam

[Anonymous]

Switching to synthetic

I say, go for the switch to synthetic. It's by far the best thing someone can do to an air-cooled engine. And it will do wonders in the shifting department. I've been running Castrol Syntec 5W-50 in all my bikes for the last 12 years or so.

Klaus

[Anonymous]

There are more urban legends regarding oil, then probably anything else. A friend of mine would only use "Wolf's Head" oil (do they still make that stuff?) because that's what his father used. It's hard to fight brand name loyalty. Anyway, I change my oil every 1000 miles. Synthetics, as great as they may be, are cost prohibitive for me. I use Quaker State semi-synthetic. Do I think it's better than Mobil 1's $8.00 a quart motorcycle specific stuff? Nope. But I doubt it's any worse. Your motor doesn't care or know what brand is in it, it does care if the oil is dirty. There has never been a documented case of engine damage, based on brand, or even type of oil. Never. There have been plenty based on lack of oil, and contaminated (dirty) oil. Everything else is our own personal inclination. I've tried full synthetic, semi, and dino oil. Both Mobil 1's car and bike oil, Honda's HP4, Valvoline's motorcycle oil, and even the 99 cent a quart stuff from Walmart. I couldn't tell any difference in performance between any of them.

[dpep]

Here's a wrinkle to the synthetic vs. regular debate. I am a believer in Mobil 1 myself. But the mechanic that I had rebuild my 850 is dead set against synthetics because he says that they do not absorb heat as well as regular oil. The oil runs cooler, but the metal runs hotter. Regular oil breaks down sooner because it has been taking more heat from the metal.

I have never heard of this elsewhere, but it doesn't sound completely illogical when you think about it. When we say that the engine is running cooler, it is the oil that is in the engine that is being reported on the temprature guage. The metal could actually be hotter.

This mechanic is not a rookie. He worked on GS's when they were new. We have a lot of technically savvy members on the forum. What say ye?

[Anonymous]

Here's a wrinkle to the synthetic vs. regular debate. I am a believer in Mobil 1 myself. But the mechanic that I had rebuild my 850 is dead set against synthetics because he says that they do not absorb heat as well as regular oil. The oil runs cooler, but the metal runs hotter. Regular oil breaks down sooner because it has been taking more heat from the metal.

I have never heard of this elsewhere, but it doesn't sound completely illogical when you think about it. When we say that the engine is running cooler, it is the oil that is in the engine that is being reported on the temprature guage. The metal could actually be hotter.

This mechanic is not a rookie. He worked on GS's when they were new. We have a lot of technically savvy members on the forum. What say ye?

Synthetic gets good marks because it retains viscosity over over more miles. But what if that is because it restricts the amount of heat it will pull from the metal sur e usually

I'm not buying it! As to mechanics and their opinions on all things mechanical, many have parroted stuff to me over the years that I knew to be false based on my previous research or reading authoritative sources. Most of the well-meaning motorcycle mechanics I've met over the years have been adamant in saying that anything but motorcycle specific oil would ruin my bike engines and wet clutches. I know that not to be true! Many could have been reading the advertising text right off the oil bottle. Their firmly held opinion was based on what they believed to be true simply because some mentor had told them the same thing, despite neither party having done any research at all!

These are the universal truths (quite separate from any dubious advertising claims) that cause me to use synthetic oil in my air-cooled motorcycles:
Synthetic oils resist viscosity breakdown caused by mechanical shearing much better by reason of their chemistry. Heat-related breakdown occurs at significantly higher temperatures than with conventional oils. Synthetic oils are slipperier, and so less frictional heat is generated.

I don't use synthetic oils in my water-cooled autos for reasons of cost.

I use 15W-50 synthetic CAR oil in my motorcycles 'cause it's the perfect viscosity mix for my warm/hot three-season riding, particularly in stop 'n go conditions in summer heat.

I use Mobil-1 15W-50 synthetic CAR oil because it costs only $4.50 USD a quart at the local Canadian Walmart. Mobil-1 is a quality product, but price and availability sell the product. The cheapest conventional motorcycle oil I can buy locally is about $2.50 USD, and that is 10W-40.

[Anonymous]

I use 15W-50 synthetic CAR oil in my motorcycles 'cause it's the perfect viscosity mix for my warm/hot three-season riding, particularly in stop 'n go conditions in summer heat.

I use Mobil-1 15W-50 synthetic CAR oil because it costs only $4.50 USD a quart at the local Canadian Walmart. Mobil-1 is a quality product, but price and availability sell the product. The cheapest conventional motorcycle oil I can buy locally is about $2.50 USD, and that is 10W-40.

I use either a 5W-50 or 15W-50 synthetic car oil, whichever is priced best at the time. Stores seem to have clearance specials every so often on old stock for a real bargin. Sometimes you can do a better deal for 2x5 litres - same stuff works in the car.

[Anonymous]

have to agree with the pro synthetic lobby on this one you also get the best smelling bike around
ozman

[Anonymous]

have to agree with the pro synthetic lobby on this one you also get the best smelling bike around
ozman

Wall Mart USA seems to have put 15-50 mobile one int an almost likable price range. They have a 5 US-qt container for $18.88 USD i believe. It seems that it is the standard price now. Maybe other syntecs will follow suit???

[Anonymous]

$18,88 for a 5quart?

Say, that is a good price. Not to say great price compared to the prices here in Sweden. The range on good synthetic oils varies around $10-15 per quart.....
I use the best, as I am concerned, oil there is....RED LINE 20w-50 that is temperature stabil well above ather brands. The clutch and gearbox works great and if the viscosity is too high for some, the same oil comes in 5w-30, 10w-40, 15w-50 and 20w-50.
One bother though. It doesn?t excuse an old and worn engine as consumption goes through the roof However that is how i discovered mine was and I replaced pistons and rings ending the consumption almost totally. On our engines the consumption is the biggest around the pistons and rings since the clearances between cylinder and piston is larger than a water cooleed engine.

[AOD]

mechanics want you to use non synthetic oil because it keeps them in business.

here is the report i did for any of you with sometime. the powerpoint presentation is more of a 'summary' of things. the report itself has some stories and more data and graphs.

http://aod.no-ip.com/files/school/423%20final%20presentation.ppt

http://aod.no-ip.com/files/school/Reliability%20of%20Synthetic%20Motor%20Oil%20Compared%20to%20Conventional%20Motor%20Oil.doc

both of these are written by me, from collective research.

Slowpoke, is 15W-50 safe for our bikes in summer driving?

~Adam

[Anonymous]

The one question I really have nagging at me in all of these discussions is this: Why are some having problems with clutches and some are not? I am the first to embrace an improvement for any of my equipment. But the last thing I can afford is to have to replace clutch plates since I have to have the bike for 120 miles a day commute. Maybe someone can enlighten if there is any definitive proof that you can or can't use synthetic oils without damage. I'm not trying to start an argument, just can't afford to throw away money. By the by, sure hope you got an "A" on the paper. It was a good read, especially for the layman!

[AOD]

thanks, i did get an A in the class.

as for whether synthetics will work for you...well its something you need to try. everyones clutch condition is different. the reason there is a problem sometimes with the clutch is because its a wet clutch setup and synthetic is more slippery, the clutch may slip more...

i think it something you could drive with if you had to...to test out the oil. if you have problems, swap back.

since no big weekend plans are shaping up, i think i'm going to devote some time to the bike, and swap to synthetics, then take it for a long cruise.

~Adam

[lhanscom]

But the last thing I can afford is to have to replace clutch plates since I have to have the bike for 120 miles a day commute.

Just in case you haven't looked. Even if all the bad that has ever been said about auto oil and motorcycle clutches was true, and you burnt thru your clutch in record time. You would only be down $50 and an hour of your time to put in a new clutch.
In reality, you would notice your clutch misbehaving, and would have to change your oil again.
I have run Synthetic in my 700 with no problems with my clutch. That's a 100mi a day commute and about 30 trips down the dragstrip.

[Anonymous]

The one question I really have nagging at me in all of these discussions is this: Why are some having problems with clutches and some are not?

A better question is: WHO are these people having trouble with their clutches? In all cases so far, people tell me about their friend having trouble with a clutch (often the same friend who worked as a nurse at the hospital where Richard Gere visited and ...).

Make sure you get specific advice as to whether a particular oil is clutch safe. Typically, if the oil doesn't have an "energy conserving" symbol/label on the bottle you'll be safe. Despite all rumors to the contrary, I still haven't seen that notation on a bottle of oil with a viscosity over 30 weight. Remember that oil treatments (most are "snake-oil" - read the INDEPENDENT research) are not oil.

As lhanscom wrote earlier, if it ruined your clutch and an oil change wouldn't solve the problem, clutches and clutch work are relatively cheap. Much cheaper than a lifetime of paying for too-expensive motorcycle oil!