Has anyone ever installed a kick stand kill switch???

[Speedo]

You take too much liberty.

In system design there is a presumption of humans making errors. Errors should not result in injury or death (to an acceptable risk level). However, the addition of a safety feature needs to make the system more safe not less. That is the challenge.

Point taken. I have to say however that I now own a)a chevy truck that automatically turns its light on/off, must be in Park to turn ignition on, and has all electric windows, doors, etc., also automatically locks the doors after 10 seconds of driving, b)an acura with all of the above EXCEPT no auto lights so you have to actually turn your lights on/off manually, c)a '96 and an '00 porsche which have various "idiot proof" goodies but not the lights, and d)my '78 F150 and my '78 GS750 with have "automatic" NOTHING.

Know what? I NEVER forget to turn my lights on in the dark on the none auto vehicles. Why? Because I CAN'T SEE SH*T without them, that's why. And I never forget to close the doors, I never forgot to use the manual window cranks on my F150, never forgot to manually push the choke "off" on my GS750. Why? Because window won't go down if you forget. Because bike runs like crap if you leave choke engaged.

Have we lost all confidence in our own god-given common sense and survival instinct? Please someone argue with me/converse/convince me otherwise...PLEASE...don't make me beg

Indulge me and let me tell you a story or this "safety" concept run amok:

My '96 porsche 911 (95-98 were last of the air cooled 911. '99 they went to water-cooled which continue to this day and are fine cars btw) took the auto "fail-safe" thing to its extreme. It has the smartest dumbest "security" system ever invented by man. In order to start the car, the driver's door has to be locked and unlocked by means of the SAME method (i.e. either key or elec key fob switch) AND within one minute of locking/unlocking, or the car will not start.
Sound great right? Well how often do you LOCK your car when you park in your garage? Right, never. So next day, hop in your 911, turn key and NOTHING. You have to LOCK doors, then UNLOCK doors and turn ig key within 1 minute or starter will not work. wow, how "smart" is that?

And it gets better. I your key fob battery happens to die, and you figure "hey, why not just USE THE KEY to open the driver's door?", the alarm goes off and will not stop because the system is set up such that whatever LOCKED the door last (ie be it hardware key or elec key fob switch) MUST BE USED to open door or else the alarm goes off. Now it doesn't take a genius to conjure a common scenario that will cause owners nightmares AND embarassment AND expensive tows: you get out of car, lock it electronically with key fob. The battery in fob goes dead. You think "no big deal I have an actual KEY", unlock car with key, get in, go to start car with key, and instead of starting, the theft alarm goes off and WILL NOT STOP without some codes from Porsche dealer and/or get new battery for key fob (remember: it's dead, which is why you used key to begin with) to swich alarm off and which IS THE ONLY WAY TO SWITCH ALARM OFF.

So in other words, you will watch your car get towed all while the alarm is going off until the battery dies inplying that you are stealing your own car and there is NOT ONE GD THING you can do about it unless you manifest a new battery for your key fob or get your local Porsche dealer out of bed at 10pm after that nice dinner date you just had to get the manual code to disable.

Now, I'm certainly not the smartest guy in teh world, but how dumb is that?
Not to mention that system is so propriety and "bullet proof" that THERE IS NO WORKAROUND / no private "chip" or anything available to disable this evil electronic "safety" feature. And we all know there are many many really smart people out there who would be happy to make a buck while helping people/improving something. Nothing. Noone has come up with a workaround. Because on top of everything else, the system was designed with a "mission impossible SELF destruct" mechanism if you mess with it X number of times (i think 3 times), the whole thing blows up, won't work, and you have to replace the whole system through the porsche dealer.

This system was so "evil", "unfixable", and user-unfriendly and so many porsche owners complained between 1995 and 1998 (only 3 yrs mind you) when they used this system, that porsche actually changed it and toned it WAY down for 1999 and after models.

Wow, that's a lot of BS above (sorry), my point? THERE IS NO SUBSTITUTE FOR BRAINS AND COMMON SENSE.

If you're dumb, we can't help you.

No amount of idiot lights, gauges, neutral safety switches, clutch must be engaged for starter to work switches, automatic headlights, idiot light to tell you kick stand on your bike is still down, will prevent you from ultimately doing something so stupid that it will threaten your life or better just the life of your vehicle.

Amen.

[posplayr]

Much more elegant solution than mine, I must say. Well thought out.

Thanks for that complement; For something as critical as safety provisions, I did not want to suggest anything unsafe.

I think I worked up through several combinations of capability to finally arrive at this full up configuration.

[Pete Logan]

No amount of idiot lights, gauges, neutral safety switches, clutch must be engaged for starter to work switches, automatic headlights, idiot light to tell you kick stand on your bike is still down, will prevent you from ultimately doing something so stupid that it will threaten your life or better just the life of your vehicle.

Amen.

I agree with that. But it's a minority view.

The reality is that 96% of the sheeple in the world DO need safety systems to keep them from dying of their own stupidity.

Not a view that is terribly popular, but if we wanted to be popular we probably wouldn't be living the lives we do

[isleoman]

The solution to not forgetting is to just remember. That's some circular logic that I see often when the discussion turns to remembering to shut off blinkers or put up kick stands.

If your memory and concentration are that good now, just wait a few years, or get distracted for some reason while your sitting parked on your bike.

Jim, again thanks for all the knowledge and support you bring to this site.

[posplayr]

The solution to not forgetting is to just remember. That's some circular logic that I see often when the discussion turns to remembering to shut off blinkers or put up kick stands.

If your memory and concentration are that good now, just wait a few years, or get distracted for some reason while your sitting parked on your bike.

Jim, again thanks for all the knowledge and support you bring to this site.

Thanks Tom.

With the responses I get sometimes I have to wonder why I even bother? Some even suggest I'm espousing to show how smart I am with insinuations I'm speaking above the audience. Well that is not my intent, but rather to make issues/solutions as plain as possible.

I have come to understand that while there maybe initial resistance to my work (especially when it is controversial), that it is usually just a matter of time before it is accepted. I'm now referring to my work which even if indirect, is as a senior consulting system engineer for US Army programs. So I can hardly expect to get no resistance here at GSR. I just have to be patient.

At least I wont get in trouble here at GSR for making a technical argument contrary to the political powers.

Jim

[chef1366]

Too much info Jim. Just let people think you're pompous.

[posplayr]

Too much info Jim. Just let people think you're pompous.

Brevity has not specifically been one of my objective skills

[cavehamster]

The point is very valid; there is a member here (Tone I believe) that had a Friend high side on a high speed sweeper into on coming traffic when a relay powered ignition failed.

It can happen; any people are running coil mods relays.

And the high side was directly attributable to the engine cutting out? That's kind of interesting. I would have assumed it would have resulted in the same thing as just having a bunch of engine braking suddenly. Should have been able to yank in the clutch and coast, but... not everyone obviously makes the right decision in time.

As for the side stand switch, I always left it working on my old dirt bike, and I certainly have not by-passed it on the V-Strom, but the GS doesn't have one at all (probably a POS thing). I have not had issues with this because the GS side stand is way more in the way of things than other ones I have seen.

Regardless, failsafe is the best course of action. Just think carefully about what is safest.

[Rudeman]

Why not just fit a rubber kick-up device ala Honda?

[Steve]

Brevity has not specifically been one of my objective skills

So, ... you never could answer those forms that asked you to "describe yourself in 25 words or less"?

I knew one guy that answered that with "Concise".

.