trying to set ignition timing

[Anonymous]

Hello all,
I am trying to set my ignition timing per Earl's directions, but I have run into a problem. I have gotten my points gapped, and am trying to adjust the backing plates. The problem is that when I move either of the backing plates, my test light will not even flicker. This is moving either plate in either direction, and I do move them slow. My bike will not start. It does have spark, fuel, and air. I believe it just isn't sparking at the right time.

Any ideas, could it be a bad condensor? There is plenty of contact patch left on the points.

Thanks,
Billy Miles

[earlfor]

Re: trying to set ignition timing

I've written points timing instruction for various persons and I write them from my head (I dont copy a book). Consequently, my instructions cover only the steps the person needs. Sometimes, cylinders 2 and 3 are the only ones not firing correctly, so I just give the last few steps concerning those two cylinders. If you would copy to a post or tell me which of my post numbers you are following, I can read it and probably see where you are in trouble. :-) I could rewrite the whole sequence, but its easier to just check the instructions you're following.

Earl

P.S. You cannot move either of the backing plates. You can only set the 1,4 plate correctly and then the 2,3 plate. You cannot go backor change the order and 2,3 can only be set if 1,4 is correct.

Hello all,
I am trying to set my ignition timing per Earl's directions, but I have run into a problem. I have gotten my points gapped, and am trying to adjust the backing plates. The problem is that when I move either of the backing plates, my test light will not even flicker. This is moving either plate in either direction, and I do move them slow. My bike will not start. It does have spark, fuel, and air. I believe it just isn't sparking at the right time.

Any ideas, could it be a bad condensor? There is plenty of contact patch left on the points.

Thanks,
Billy Miles

[Anonymous]

thanks Earl, the directions I am following were in the post:

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/viewtopic.php?t=9513&highlight=timing

[Anonymous]

Also, I have a problem with my charging system so I charge my battery regularly. It charges up to between 13.50 and 13.65 and then it will usually start my bike. So I charged it up to see if it is was the problem and the bike still will not start. However, during some of my tests on the battery to check voltage I saw a slow, but steady drop in the hundreths place of my readings. Also, I have never checked voltage while starting my bike. Is it normal for my voltage reading to drop to about 10.50 while the bike is trying to start.

[earlfor]

OK, thry it this way.

Since you said you have moved both breaker plates with no result then start with centering the breaker plate again. (the three screws located at the 12, 4 and 8 oclock positions) Center the 12 oclock screw in its slot and slightly tighten all three screws. Rotate the crankshaft CLOCKWISE only (do not back up) until the left pointset is at its widest gap. Set the left pointset gap to 14 thousandths. Tighten hold down screw on the left pointset. Rotate crankshaft clockwise until right pointset is at widest gap and set that gap to 14 thousandths. Tighten the hold down screw on the right pointset.

The next steps, we will do a slightly different way. This is for the left pointset only. Take a 19 mm wrench and rotate the crankshaft clockwise until you see the F1| in the timing window and the mark (|) is aligned with the timing mark on the crankcase (or backing plate mark (whichever you may have) When those two marks are in alignment, disconnect the wire that connects to your left pointset (it should be a black one, but it may not be) Assuming it is black, connect the alligator clip of the continuity light to the small bolt on the pointset that you removed the black wire from. Connect the black wire to the probe tip of the continuity light. This wires your continuity light in series with the power supply to the pointset. The black (and white) wires to your pointsets are +. When the points close, they complete the circuit to ground. Consequently, your light should remain off until the points close (make contact) and then the light will come on. (assuming you have the ignition switched on) Once you have the continuity light clipped into series between the black wire and the points connector bolt, loosen the three hold down screws on the breaker plate and slowly rotate the plate unitl the light just barely flickers on.
Then tighten the three breaker plate hold down screws tight because you can no longer adjust the main breaker plate or loosen these three screws.
Re-install the black wire to the right pointset. At no time during this may you rotate the crankshaft from its timing mark alignment.

For the right pointset

Rotate crankshaft clockwise with 19mm wrench until you see the mark
F2| in the timing window and it is aligned with the timing arrow on the engine case. Do not move crankshaft one this mark is in alignment.
Connect the continuity light in series with the white wire on the right pointset just like you did for the left set. Loosen the screw on the right pointset HALF breaker plate. Move the half plate until the continuity light just begins to flicker on. Tighten the hold down screw on the HALF plate.
Re-install the white wire to the pointset.

check to be sure you have also connected both condensers (one on each pointset)

Let me know if this doesnt work either. :-)

Earl

[Anonymous]

Earl,
I tried setting the timing as you said, and even with the continuity light in series, I couldn't get the backing plates to make a change. I did get the bike to start however. I changed the plugs, and filed the points real well, and it started. Still the backing plates make no change in the continuity light.
Thanks for taking the time to help. I ordered new points and condensor, and will try timing again when they are installed, but any more suggestions would be appreciated.

By the way, at the beginning of the summer you gave me alot of suggestions about my leaky carb vent tubes. After making my petcock vacuum free and adjusting my float height repeatedly they no longer seem to leak. It would be nice to be able to ride the bike enough to find out. Anyway I just wanted to say thank you for the time and experience you put into helping all of us. Especially with you probably having pristine bikes that you could be riding instead.
Sincerely,
Billy Miles

[earlfor]

Billy, that result does not make sense to me. With the continuity light wired in series with the black wire that carries power to the right point set, the circuit is not completed until the points close. If the points are open, it is the same as hooking one wire of a light to a positive battery terminal and having the negative wire of the light not hooked up to anything. The light cannot light because there is no circuit completed. The only thing I can think of that you could be doing is running the engine. You do NOT run the engine. The ignition key is switched to the ON position, BUT this is static timing. The engine must not be turned over, or run. The timing mark alignment (that you see through the timing window) must at all times remain aligned and unmoved.

Have you been adjusting the breaker plates with the engine running???

NO NO NO :-) :-)

Earl

Earl,
I tried setting the timing as you said, and even with the continuity light in series, I couldn't get the backing plates to make a change. I did get the bike to start however. I changed the plugs, and filed the points real well, and it started. Still the backing plates make no change in the continuity light.
Thanks for taking the time to help. I ordered new points and condensor, and will try timing again when they are installed, but any more suggestions would be appreciated.

By the way, at the beginning of the summer you gave me alot of suggestions about my leaky carb vent tubes. After making my petcock vacuum free and adjusting my float height repeatedly they no longer seem to leak. It would be nice to be able to ride the bike enough to find out. Anyway I just wanted to say thank you for the time and experience you put into helping all of us. Especially with you probably having pristine bikes that you could be riding instead.
Sincerely,
Billy Miles

[earlfor]

You're more than welcome. :-) I would not by any stretch, call my bikes pristene. I keep a close watch on them mechanically, but I ride them a lot. Sometimes, I wash them, but only when I dont feel like going riding. :-)
I do have to change the oil about every 2 to 3 weeks though because I reach my 1500 mile oil change interval. :-)

Earl

Earl,

Anyway I just wanted to say thank you for the time and experience you put into helping all of us. Especially with you probably having pristine bikes that you could be riding instead.
Sincerely,
Billy Miles

[Anonymous]

Nope, I don't run the engine when trying to set the timing.

The only time I have ever been able to get the light to change is by accident. If I loosen the screws on either backing plate (depending on which points I am working with of course) enough for the plate to pull away from where it is mounted then the light will sometimes flicker or go off or on. However, if I hold the plate back while turning it then there is never a change.

[earlfor]

OK, Then either the isolating washers and core on the electrical wire attachment bolt on the points is not installed correctly or the insulator on the spring portion of the point set is worn and grounding out. The spring and arm of the point set is supposed to be completely electrically isolated from the base it rotates on (the mounting plate of the pointset) Your continuity light is always on because your points are grounded out.
It follows that you will not be able to get the bike to run with the points always going to ground. The points mounting plate is ground. The spring portion of the points (the half that is the rotating arm) is isolated and its only path to ground is supposed to be when the points make contact.

Earl

Nope, I don't run the engine when trying to set the timing.

The only time I have ever been able to get the light to change is by accident. If I loosen the screws on either backing plate (depending on which points I am working with of course) enough for the plate to pull away from where it is mounted then the light will sometimes flicker or go off or on. However, if I hold the plate back while turning
it then there is never a change.

[Anonymous]

I should get my new points and condensor late next week. So if the insulators are worn out then that should fix it.

Thanks again,
Billy Miles
I'll let you know how the new parts do.

[earlfor]

One last check Billy. Hook up the continuity light inline to the left pointset so that power from the black wire goes through the continuity light to power the pointset. Place a piece of paper (matchbook cover will do) between the points. This insures the points cannot come together. Turn on the ignition switch. The light must stay out. If it comes on, then your pointset is grounded out . It is NOT supposed to be.

Earl

I should get my new points and condensor late next week. So if the insulators are worn out then that should fix it.

Thanks again,
Billy Miles
I'll let you know how the new parts do.