Starting a long dormant engine.

[engel]

humour me.

it turns, it sparks, it has feelable compression, new plugs, and won't go bang.

as theres been thirty hours in this, does your 2 year old gs battery and carbs when dropped back on the gs get the gs started? if so then the carbs are eliminated.

i'm also assuming the kat takes the same 10 mm plugs as your E (is this the four valver we get as the GSX over here?)so try them in it too. before you do, take the plugs you removed in the first place and insert them into the plug leads with the other set still in the head. spool her over and check that they all fire and in the correct order despite the slowing of the crank rotation as she fights compression.

as old mate asked are the plugs wet from cranking? is your fuel stuffed perhaps? tip a small drop of it on one of the plugs you have on the outside of the head and see if its still flamable enough to ignite outside the chamber. of course be at the ready to blow out or douse the flame if she goes off and lights.

your timing to the cams and crank is what i'm worried about. even when my stuffed igniter was only firing when i switched on then off the ignition/flicked the killswitch, irrespective of where the pistons were in there bores, the crack of the 4 plugs sparking in unison set off a massive backfire that scared the **** out of my neighbours. while turning over yours will only be going off one at a time but if theres drawn in or squirted in mixture in the pot and it ain't goin bang then you either don't have spark , or you don't have it occurring anywhere near top dead centre with the valves shut.

if this was a V8 LA wedge mopar i'd ask you to remove the dizzy and rotate it 180 degrees and give that a burl. as this can't happen, please put a plug in no.1 lead and with a thumb over the open no.1 plug hole and leaning over to watch that plug, thumb the starter and make certain that the time the plug cracks coincides with the stroke and instant the compression stroke blasts your thumb off that pot.

best of luck, glen.

additional: "I had my pro mechanic look at it and he passed it as worth a try. Remember, I was trying to confirm that this engine ran before putting any more dollars into the project. In hindsight that may have been a bad move as its very possible that gasket is giving me a compression issues."

hang on? did you try to fire this donk before you pulled the head and reassembled? i cleaned the carbs in mine then tried it for running before i got into any other part of fixing the bike. if so did it run? my condolences on reusing the gasket.

[Ponderosa]

Ok?

No fuel? I am leaning toward intake valve problems, compression, or something simple.. Do you have suction at the carbs while cranking, can you throw a piece of saran wrap over the intakes, see if suction (even a little) is taking place? Do a leak down, pressure up cylinders on TDC see if you have any hold? My Pappy always said "It is usually the simple stuff we overlooked that screws us up!"..... Had a rebuilt Kat come into the shop years ago, said he rebuilt it, all looked well, but no fuel, no intake suction, he had put pieces of cloth in intakes when he washed the engine prior to tear down! They were wedged in every intake valve...

[spyug]

Thanks Glen.

As you're coming a bit late to this party I'll try and catch you up.

The long and short of it is that I got this bike back in October as a rolling "basket case" for a winter resto. Engine was in frame but I didn't know at the time that it was seized. The PO mistakenly thought he had turned it over by hand ( He had about 6 similar projects on the go at the same time) and I didn't check until I got it home on the lift. I tried everything to free it up for more than a week before I decided to peel it apart and "bonk" the pistons with a chunk of 2"x4" to free them. So in answer to you, no it never ran prior to this. The history of the machine is also not really know so it could have been sitting for gosh knows how long. The PO had it for just over a year. Although the odo show around 60,000Km the innards look clean and no wear marks on cams or any pitting on the 3 or 4 valves and seats I sampled.

Being budget minded I wanted to hear this thing run before I went any further and this has brought me to where I am now. Carbs were througly cleaned and rebuilt, wiring harness and elctricals cleaned and sorted, valves adjusted, fresh plugs and a hope that it would fire.

I've just called in my best buddy who is a teacher but also a licenced mechanic for a consultation tonight ( free tucker and all the holy water he wants). Sometimes putting fresh eyeballs on things can pinpoint the problemo....at least that's what I'm hoping.

Sure would be nice to figure this out.

cheers,
spyug

[spyug]

Had a rebuilt Kat come into the shop years ago, said he rebuilt it, all looked well, but no fuel, no intake suction, he had put pieces of cloth in intakes when he washed the engine prior to tear down! They were wedged in every intake valve...
__________________

Interesting Mr. P. this head was the same way when I got it but I thought I had pulled out 4 wads. Maybe something is further in.

The saran wrap idea is a good one. I never would have thought of that. I'll be trying that tonight.

Your Pappy must have been from Scottish stock like mine as he always said the same thing. I know they are going to be proven right when I finally suss this thing.

Thanks for that input.

Spyug

[Skateguy50]

I was hoping with 10 pages I would eventually find a happy ending... guess I will grab some popcorn and hope for the best.

[old_chopper]

Oh the suspense!!! Could it be the hidden rags in the intakes? I'm thinking that could be possible. I have seen simpler things bring smart men to the brink of insanity trying to find the most complex answer. A platoon leader taught me the K.I.S.S. rule (No not the rock band), Keep It Simple Soldier. Seems most problems are just that, something simple.
I look forward to your post this evening telling us this thing fired up and disturbed the entire neighborhood with the noise...

[Ponderosa]

Good deal

Interesting Mr. P. this head was the same way when I got it but I thought I had pulled out 4 wads. Maybe something is further in.

The saran wrap idea is a good one. I never would have thought of that. I'll be trying that tonight.

Your Pappy must have been from Scottish stock like mine as he always said the same thing. I know they are going to be proven right when I finally suss this thing.

Thanks for that input.

Spyug

No, just solid old Italian stock, but same type no doubt...LOL

[spyug]

Well wait for it.......I might have a reason.

At lunch time I ran out to the garage to make sure the batteries were good and charged and on a whim I decided to set the cam timing as per the diagram and quadruple check everything yet again. The upper cam marks are tickety boo. When I go to have a peek at the timing mark on the advancer.......it ain't there. No T mark or pointer....it looks like everything has shifted. Somethings busted for sure cause the darn thing lined up before.

I didn't have a chance to fiddle with it then but I'm chomping at the bit now to tear into it. I have about an hour more work to finish off then its on with the covvies, crank up the heaters and let me at it.

I'm not sure what I'm going to find but I'm hoping its not a busted crank pin or worse. I have that queasy feeling guys.

Now would be a good time to pray

Stay tuned.
Spyug

[doctorgonzo]

Knew it was the cam timing. Fingers crossed for you that it just rotated on you while you were mounting the cams.

[Steve]

....it looks like everything has shifted. Somethings busted for sure cause the darn thing lined up before.

Want a quick, easy test to check the crank?

Remove the spark plugs. Put a drinking straw in each hole, resting it on the top of the piston.
Move the crank by hand, watch the straws. Pay particular attention to numbers 1&4.
If they don't hit top and bottom at the same time it will be easy to see.

.

[Steve]

I was hoping with 10 pages I would eventually find a happy ending... guess I will grab some popcorn and hope for the best.

10 pages???

You need to change your display preferences. It's only half-way down page 3 for me.

.

[frasermanx]

Starting

I had trouble but after new plugs, new air filter, new oil $ filter... I cleaned the tank and the fueltap ( very important ) So I put gaffer tape on the carb mouths covering even the little holes for those tiny carb passages. Have you tried to clean the slow running carb jets ?

Go to youtube and see the video GS850 1982 1985 .. It hadn't run since 1985 and still had the plate on it !!!

frz

[Nessism]

Glad the problem has been found.

The crank is fine, it's one piece. Sounds like the cam chain jumped for some reason. Did you cock the tensioner and release the plunger after the cams were installed?

The proper procedure to time the cams is to first get the 1-4 T mark aligned on the crank, and then check the exhaust cam next for alignment of the #1 mark. Last thing to check is the intake cam. Don’t even look at the cams until 1-4 is aligned.

[duaneage]

Lift the valve cover and don't glue it back down until it starts. Then you can finish it off.

Check the valve clearances to make sure they are correct.

[spyug]

Well things didn't go according to plan. Buddy came for supper and brought the girlfriend. Next thing you know we're having dins with copious quantities of vine juice. Needless to say, your humble scribe and invited "expert" are soon in no fit shape to look at bike innards. So discretion being the better part of valour, we decided to forego examinations until we are both more compus mentis. Don't want to bugger things at this point.

I think I had become so wound up this week that this little break was needed.

Hopefully I will be back on track tomorrow.

Hang in to hear how it turns out.

Cheers all,
Spyug