question about zip tie method

[gser425]

I have checked my clearances and all but two are in spec. the instructions for the zip tie method say you can do two shims at one time with two zip ties. if you lock one valve open and remove the shim you then have to turn the cams to lock another one down. everything i've read said turning the cam with no shim is a no-no. my question is this: does locking the valve open like the zip method does keep this from being a no no?edit: what happens if you rotate crank with a valve locked open and no shim in the bucket I guess is the best question. I did it one time AM I SCREWED? the shim went back in after i did it, and when i rotated it nothing seemed out of whack. I know it is no excuse but it was getting dark and I'm stuck doing this in my driveway so I got hurried. I went from feeling good about this to totally freaked out that i have done something i can't reverse.

[Steve]

I would have to read that procedure again rather carefully, but I don't remember it saying you could do two at once.

Where the book does say anything about two at once is when you align the cam to check clearances. With the cam in the proper position, you check both valves on that side of the cam without moving anything.

You should never move the cam with the shims out. Can't say you are screwed without inspecting it, hopefully you got lucky this time.

EDIT: I just looked at the procedure. I got the impression that if there were two valves that were near opening at the same time, you could put zip-ties in both of them, rotate the crank until they were both held by the zip-ties, change both shims, rotate the crank to release the zip-ties. Do NOT rotate the crank if you have a shim missing.

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[gser425]

Thank you for your response and the quickness of it. If i got lucky this time you better believe i won't push my luck again. from now on if i've only got an hour of daylight to mess around I'll spend it on the computer browsing on here. Steve, I understand about measuring two at a time, but the zip method instructions say that two valves can be locked open at the same time, but from now on I'll stick with slow and steady wins the race. I promise I'm not an idiot just new to this turning wrenches thing.

[Skateguy50]

What i found helped for shims is to have an assistant turn the wrench for you, and you keep checking the shims and putting in the new ones. Especially nice when you are on the other side of the engine from the wrench

So far the best I could do is get my buddies to help out for beer, wife loves to ride but not much into turning the wrench...

[mike_of_bbg]

Well, not ANY two valves, anyway. At the same time your 4-cyl motor is open on one intake valve, it is also open on one exhaust valve.

[Steve]

Because of the rarity of having the two valves you want to hold open at the same time, I just take the extra few seconds and do them all one at a time.

A little more time, maybe, but certainly less headache.

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[mike_of_bbg]

Personally I thought $11 for the shim tool was money well spent. Then again, my thinking might change the next time I adjust the valves (presumably with the motor in the frame, unlike the last time) and there's an opportunity for stuff to get in the way...

[lurch12_2000]

I've used the zip tie method on a 650G, 850G, 1000 and 1100G without any problems. When playing musical shims, I've never found the valves that you would hold 2 open at a time to swap around, side by side, and NEVER rotated the cam without a shim. So I guess what I'm saying is that I never tried holding 2 open at a time with 2 zip ties. I can see how you might have misunderstood this on your 1st attempt, and hopefully no damage done. And I always have at least 1 spare shim to be able to shuffle things around.
Use a good zip tie, not the cheap thin ones that potentially could break off in the cylinder. If it does, you can use a shop vac with a narrow hose to try to suck it out the spark plug hole. Empty the shop vac 1st so you can tell if you got it....and no I haven't had to try that retrieval method yet!

[Steve]

Personally I thought $11 for the shim tool was money well spent. Then again, my thinking might change the next time I adjust the valves (presumably with the motor in the frame, unlike the last time) and there's an opportunity for stuff to get in the way...

I think I paid a bit more for my shim tool, but have a difficult time using it, so I prefer the zip-tie method.

For those that do use the shim tool, be very careful. If the tool slips off the side of the bucket, there is a LOT of force that will slam the bucket into place. If the shim is completely in place or completely removed, there is not much problem. However, if the shim is almost in place, ...

Well, let's just say that it was over an hour before I found enough of the pieces to re-assemble a shattered shim to the point that I was comfortable moving the crank again. Yep, found the pieces, re-assembled them like a jig-saw puzzle, then taped the pieces together and set the shim on the shelf as a reminder to be VERY careful.

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[n1elkyfan]

I've gotten pretty good with the shim tool. but thats only because the first time I tried the zip tie methoued. It broke on me and I had to pull the head of the engine.

[gser425]

another thanks for all the replies. I'm getting a couple of shims of varying sizes to have them on hand so something like this doesn't happen next time.

[Steve]

Don't buy any until you see what's in there now.

You won't need anything bigger than what you already have.

.

[Surfpilot]

I have checked my clearances and all but two are in spec. the instructions for the zip tie method say you can do two shims at one time with two zip ties. if you lock one valve open and remove the shim you then have to turn the cams to lock another one down. everything i've read said turning the cam with no shim is a no-no. my question is this: does locking the valve open like the zip method does keep this from being a no no?edit: what happens if you rotate crank with a valve locked open and no shim in the bucket I guess is the best question. I did it one time AM I SCREWED? the shim went back in after i did it, and when i rotated it nothing seemed out of whack. I know it is no excuse but it was getting dark and I'm stuck doing this in my driveway so I got hurried. I went from feeling good about this to totally freaked out that i have done something i can't reverse.

I learned the hard way not to crank the engine without shims in. DO NOT DO IT! What happens is the edges of the cam lobes wear against the bucket. Do this several times and you'll have metalic particles mixing in with your oil...not to mention having screwed up cam lobes. Fortunately I was able to use a magnet to recover most of the metal shavings, and so far the screwed up cam lobes haven't cause any running problems(maybe a bit noisier). I probably took some life off the engine though

That said, I think the zip-tie method is much easier, and cheaper. Just make sure to use a big-headed zip tie, not those dinky little ones.