so...uhm...what's the redline on these things?

[Anonymous]

I give up. When you start talking about 327, 350, and 400 Chevy engines you are off on a tangent. You are basically confusing yourself with information that has no bearing on the subject.

I'm done on this topic. There is now way to convince you, that I am sure of. Sad part is, I don't care.

no, i am not on a tangent, you assume that i am, but that is a false assumption,i am trying to make a comparison in order to understand how these motorcycleengines can take the higher RPM abuse.,

now i do know you dont care, you should have just told me in your first response. i think that you give up easy,or just dont have much of a temper,


thanks
though,

[AOD]

there's a really simple way to look at this. heck i'm a mechanical engineer, and i rather have it simple sometimes. general rule of thumb, the smaller an engine, the higher it can rev. simple as that.

now when you're comparing a GS450 vs a GS550, you have two more cylinders in the mix, and the size of the 550 cylinders is quite smaller. that being said the 550 should be able to rev a bit higher then a 450.

4000 RPM and no higher...wow.

my 79 550 makes no power below 4000 RPM. i shift into a higher gear as soon as i i hit 4000 RPM if i have to slow down. i sometimes ride it out from 2-4000 RPM, but its quite bogged down. that is the result of pod filters and 4-1 exhaust, but once i hit 4000 RPM the engine takes off.

how can these engines take more then 4000 RPM? pretty simple answer. small valvetrain, and over-head cam setup. 4000 RPM is high for most cars of the past, yes. but that's because they were pushrod engines. the 1970's DOHC technology on our bike engines is the current standard of engines today!! the small engines are made to rev higher and handle it just fine. i've driven my 78 550 on the highway at 7000 RPM for over an hour...no problems whatsoever.

when i'm cruising around town...i like 5000 RPM on my tach.

~Adam

[AOD]

fast, i hope that i explained enough why the engines can handle more revs.

honestly if suzuki wouldn't want you to rev that high, they'd set the redline to 5000. the basic idea behind the small inline engine is high-revving power. its the exact opposite of a big v-twin pushrod engine, low-revving torque power.

my Ford shifts at 4200 RPM - but its a pushrod V8 - that is expected.

when you move the cam up on top of the engine, you have a lot less moving parts and distance to cover in the valve train. this equates to more power and higher revving capabilities.

take your bike out once, on a clear road from a stop. ride the clutch out at 3000 RPM and go full throttle till 8000 RPM, clutch, and sink it into 2nd and take it up to 8000 RPM again. your bike will shift like glass, smoother then you've ever felt. and you'll probably have a big grin on your face.

~Adam

[Hap Call]

yes i understand that longer stroke equals more travel of the piston, yes

im just stuckon how everyone seems to constantly run their bikes at or near redline, this is notgoodon engines in general, i cant see how anything over mid 4k or maybe 5k is not considered excessive in a 4 cycle engine ? is it only because its a motorcycle engine that it can take this abuse, am i too used to car 4 cycle engines,or ? if you run a car 4 cycle engine like you guys are running motorcycle 4 cycle engines well then you wouldnt have a running car engine for very long.

what makes motorbike engines thismuch abuse resistant ?
this would be the whole pointand question i have been trying to get at, and well is the point of the thread, basically, is it not?
it must have to do with FPS, but i need to work on that aspect and i need sleep right now,so..
i am more mechanically inclined than i may seem like and that you apparently assume, there is just something here i dont understand, and its to do with a whole new "breed" of engines and their safe capabilities,.


thanks!

Okay, my turn to take a swing at this! Honestly Fast, I am still not convinced that you're not pulling our collective leg but what the hey...There are two basic reasons why a motorcycle engine can rev higher than a car engine. One is that the mass of the car engine pistons and rod assemblies are MUCH greater than a motorcycle thus forces produced are much greater. Second, due to the mass inherent to a push rod valve assembly, valve train separation (different parts losing contact with each other) increases and thus the chance for valve collision with the piston increases.

4000 RPM is too slow. If you want to keep you engine below 4000, that is fine, but I advise you to stay off any highways, interstate freeways, and any place that requires you to accelerate to stay out of harms way.


Hap

Hap

[moto_dan]

yes i understand that longer stroke equals more travel of the piston, yes

im just stuckon how everyone seems to constantly run their bikes at or near redline, this is notgoodon engines in general, i cant see how anything over mid 4k or maybe 5k is not considered excessive in a 4 cycle engine ? is it only because its a motorcycle engine that it can take this abuse, am i too used to car 4 cycle engines,or ? if you run a car 4 cycle engine like you guys are running motorcycle 4 cycle engines well then you wouldnt have a running car engine for very long.

what makes motorbike engines thismuch abuse resistant ?
this would be the whole pointand question i have been trying to get at, and well is the point of the thread, basically, is it not?
it must have to do with FPS, but i need to work on that aspect and i need sleep right now,so..
i am more mechanically inclined than i may seem like and that you apparently assume, there is just something here i dont understand, and its to do with a whole new "breed" of engines and their safe capabilities,.


thanks!

Okay, my turn to take a swing at this! Honestly Fast, I am still not convinced that you're not pulling our collective leg but what the hey...

I think we've been baited. Wheres Dom?????????

[Anonymous]

there's a really simple way to look at this. heck i'm a mechanical engineer, and i rather have it simple sometimes. general rule of thumb, the smaller an engine, the higher it can rev. simple as that.

now when you're comparing a GS450 vs a GS550, you have two more cylinders in the mix, and the size of the 550 cylinders is quite smaller. that being said the 550 should be able to rev a bit higher then a 450.

4000 RPM and no higher...wow.

my 79 550 makes no power below 4000 RPM. i shift into a higher gear as soon as i i hit 4000 RPM if i have to slow down. i sometimes ride it out from 2-4000 RPM, but its quite bogged down. that is the result of pod filters and 4-1 exhaust, but once i hit 4000 RPM the engine takes off.

how can these engines take more then 4000 RPM? pretty simple answer. small valvetrain, and over-head cam setup. 4000 RPM is high for most cars of the past, yes. but that's because they were pushrod engines. the 1970's DOHC technology on our bike engines is the current standard of engines today!! the small engines are made to rev higher and handle it just fine. i've driven my 78 550 on the highway at 7000 RPM for over an hour...no problems whatsoever.

when i'm cruising around town...i like 5000 RPM on my tach.

~Adam

awesome!
now we are really gettingn somewher,e yes simplicity is sometimes the best, sometijmes, like right now, so now i feel better after your responses, i thought no one here was understanding where i am coming from and how i am feeling in regards to this subject, at least you and about only one other person seem to understand what i mean really.
so techniclaly it is because of the smaller cylinder bores AND because of the OHC design, ok, now i see.

its just crazy in my mind that an engine thats not 2 cycle can take and handle so much RPM, i suppose that i will need to try this 450 out at a higher RPM band

can anyone agree with higher RPM not being good overall? or does it depend on how often you run higher RPM- with these bike engines* ?

thanks

[Anonymous]

hap and moto, ok i see where you two really stand...
i dont even know why you two replied to this, since you two dont believe, you know,...
i amnot joking here,i really was not seeing how or why any 4 cycle engine could run so freaking fast and not go kaboom !!! but i am getting there... slowly.... even though its really crazy, my 450 sounds like its going 9k at 4k, im just afraid to go past that 4k... or kaboom ! and i guarantee that if i do run it over 4k all the time- like you guys are all saying is ok to do- then everyone i ride with or ride by will say damn you run that way high RPM.
because.. well.. thats what it sounds like !


so basically super high RPM is way better than lower, more normal RPM- even if at the lower RPM that sounds better for the engine- that i run mine at- doesnt lug or chug or anything like that for me ?
pretty crazy..
then whats the point of 2 cycle engines then ?
the RPM you can run them at constantly seems like about the same as what you guys are running your 4 cycle engines at.


thanks for trying and making false assumptions regarding myself and this thread, how about i go and make false assumptions about you ? would you like that ??

.......

i thank those ofyou who are taking time to understand and explain to me this RPM phenomenom

[bgmart450]

I run my 450 on the freeway at 6-7k regularly. I rev to 8-9k on fun little bursts. I think the occaisional missing of the 1-2 and sometimes the 5-6 ( I really need to look into that one)......well I don't even want to speculate where the needle falls... I have owned the bike for a little over a year and it had 22k on it when I got it.

I have experienced no issues relating to reving the engine over 4k. I used to keep it under 4-5k, and still do when I want to be quiet (its LOUD), but I couldn't even imagine NEVER taking it any higher. I am with everyone else, they built these with the intention of using everything up to the redline. With as many as we have just here on this site still on the road should somewhat attest to the superior engineering of Suzuki.

Rev it up... you'll enjoy it (and your bike really won't hate you for it either)

[Anonymous]

I run my 450 on the freeway at 6-7k regularly. I rev to 8-9k on fun little bursts. I think the occaisional missing of the 1-2 and sometimes the 5-6 ( I really need to look into that one)......well I don't even want to speculate where the needle falls... I have owned the bike for a little over a year and it had 22k on it when I got it.

I have experienced no issues relating to reving the engine over 4k. I used to keep it under 4-5k, and still do when I want to be quiet (its LOUD), but I couldn't even imagine NEVER taking it any higher. I am with everyone else, they built these with the intention of using everything up to the redline. With as many as we have just here on this site still on the road should somewhat attest to the superior engineering of Suzuki.

Rev it up... you'll enjoy it (and your bike really won't hate you for it either)

i hope that it wont hate me for it, that would be a b*tch ! but damn i bet its insanely fun, its already fun enough as being a 22k miles 450 but damn thats at 4k rpm and under, man.. what about upto 9.5K ?? insane!@
why would anyone need anythingover this largeof abike then ?
its frickin fast enough get upand go as it is how i even drive it!

wild....

thanks

[lhanscom]

It also helps to 'Clean the carbon out' when you rev it up. Yeah, that's why I do it. :roll:

[Hap Call]

hap and moto, ok i see where you two really stand...
i dont even know why you two replied to this, since you two dont believe, you know,...

...thanks for trying and making false assumptions regarding myself and this thread, how about i go and make false assumptions about you ? would you like that ??

.......

i thank those ofyou who are taking time to understand and explain to me this RPM phenomenom

I shall be blunt and to the point here...I did not make any assumptions about you...I stated that I was not sure if you were pulling my leg or not..that is not an assumption but a stated fact. If you don't want to go beyond 4000 RPMs then don't...I am beginning to believe that there is something wrong with your tach because you almost have to go above 4000 rpm just to develop the HP to pull away from a standing start. You say it sounds like it is doing 9K rpm when the tach says 4K...either something is wrong, you don't know what 9K or 4K sounds like, or you are pulling our leg.

What is the fastest you have been on this bike?

Hap

[Anonymous]

55mph, rapping at 4200rpm, engine sounds liek its screeeeaming ! remember i am a chevy car engine guy, never really ever had a bike to run on the street, however i have driven several offroad-only bikes like XR125's and yamaha's and such, all 2 cycle of course,unlike this GS


i dont want any hard feelings here and i dont want toormean to hurt anyoen,i just want to learn and find out true info, kapeesh ?
]
thanks

[redliner1973]

55mph, rapping at 4200rpm, engine sounds liek its screeeeaming ! remember i am a chevy car engine guy, never really ever had a bike to run on the street, however i have driven several offroad-only bikes like XR125's and yamaha's and such, all 2 cycle of course,unlike this GS
]
thanks

I think you "hear' like I used to. I too, worked on SBC's, and when a 350 revved to 5k it sounds like it is about to come out the block. My 'GK has a red line of 9k, but I never take it there at all, as it sounds the same way. But when I do occasionally take it to higher limits, it just revs higher and higher without a lick of stress. My Honda 450 revved at 5k at 60mph. It sounded like my 'GK does at 3k. Alot of the scream; of an engine i related to the Camshaft duration also. rev that SBC to 5k. sounds quick right? but rev a NASCAR to 8k and pretty much sounds alot like that 5k SBC..Basic engine design is similar, but Nascars longer duration cam allows a higher PRM before valve float becomes a problem. It is OK to run your motor at higher RPMs, as long as your not red-lining it for hours at a time. your 450 shoud reach 70mph with relative ease, much as my Honda did. It was designed to do this. So relax, change the oil often, and ride!! :twisted:

[redliner1973]

55mph, rapping at 4200rpm, engine sounds liek its screeeeaming ! remember i am a chevy car engine guy, never really ever had a bike to run on the street, however i have driven several offroad-only bikes like XR125's and yamaha's and such, all 2 cycle of course,unlike this GS
]
thanks

I think you "hear' like I used to. I too, worked on SBC's, and when a 350 revved to 5k it sounds like it is about to come out the block. My 'GK has a red line of 9k, but I never take it there at all, as it sounds the same way. But when I do occasionally take it to higher limits, it just revs higher and higher without a lick of stress. My Honda 450 revved at 5k at 60mph. It sounded like my 'GK does at 3k. Alot of the scream; of an engine i related to the Camshaft duration also. rev that SBC to 5k. sounds quick right? but rev a NASCAR to 8k and pretty much sounds alot like that 5k SBC..Basic engine design is similar, but Nascars longer duration cam allows a higher PRM before valve float becomes a problem. It is OK to run your motor at higher RPMs, as long as your not red-lining it for hours at a time. your 450 shoud reach 70mph with relative ease, much as my Honda did. It was designed to do this. So relax, change the oil often, and ride!! :twisted:

[AOD]

you get used to the high revving sound of the engines. all of us are just saying you can rev past 4000 RPM, but you dont have to sit there and cruise around at 8000 RPM. the bike makes most of its power over 4000 RPM, which is nice for accelerating. if you plan to cruise, then keep it around 4-5000 RPM and its peaceful.

do what i suggested on an open road. 3000 RPM clutch rollout, 1st gear to 8000 RPM, clutch, push hard into 2nd, and go 8000 RPM until third gear. you're bike will feel and shift like glass...super smooth.