maximum horse power

[thr3shold]

looking at the specs for our bikes and then looking at the specs for the same displacement, but current year bikes, I notice a huge increase in horsepower. Can anyone tell me what it's from and what we can do to see the same increase in our earlier bikes?

[Jethro]

We can replace our motors with GSX1300 'Busa motors. I imagine the increases are from many improvements such as higher tolerances, better machining and manufacturing methods, stronger steel compounds, better lubrication methods, small changes in design that can be modeled better with CAD technology, exhaust improvements, fuel injection, better electrical systems, lighter and stronger engine parts reducing rotating weight, etc.

I guess many people have rebuilt our old air cooled motors with improved parts and design to make huge horsepower gains. Suzuki GS engines can still be seen dominating the drag racing circuit.

Look at the new ZRX1200. This bike is advertised with 106 rear wheel ponies. That's not that far off from my GS 1100 from 81 with just over 100HP. Of course, I think I had 20 horses die on me over the years!

[Billy Ricks]

Short answer, liquid cooling and mapped ignitions. Fuel injection on the latest bikes made possible by liquid cooling. There was too wide of an operating temperature range on air cooled bikes to make injection work right.

[Anonymous]

Short answer, liquid cooling...

Exactly. All things are possible when cooling is less a consideration.

[focus frenzy]

Short answer, liquid cooling and mapped ignitions. Fuel injection on the latest bikes made possible by liquid cooling. There was too wide of an operating temperature range on air cooled bikes to make injection work right.

very good point, Kawasaki tried fuel injection on the gpz1100 and had lots of problems and actualy lost power with it, they also used it on the water cooled kz1300 and the zn 1300 voyager and it worked alot better with it.

CAD Computer Aided Design has made it mutch simpler to design and produce engines that can produce increadable power per liter but they sacrifice long term durability for the sake of peak power, modern engines are built with the bare essential amount of metal to last for their short lifes.

I have read several articles on new sport bikes that have been turboed and they fail very quickly.
these GS engines where over built with big rods, big bottom ends, big everything, simple modifications net good gains in power, while it requires a PHD to get every little gain from a GSXR1000.

[Mr. Jiggles]

How do the power curves for the new bikes compare with ours? Are they as broad? My understanding was that part of the HP increases for the new bikes was due to the higher rpm's that they can achieve.

Jeff

[Anonymous]

How do the power curves for the new bikes compare with ours? Are they as broad? My understanding was that part of the HP increases for the new bikes was due to the higher rpm's that they can achieve.

Jeff

Jeff, it all depends on which new bike you are refering to. The power curve on a ZRX1200R is increadibly broad, and it's carburated also (2001 anyway).

You have to understand that engineers have learned quite a bit over the last 20 years. New technologies have emerged. You can increase the HP output of these GS motors to be on an equivalent of the newer bikes. As was pointed out earlier, cooling will become an issue because HP = heat. That heat needs to go somewhere. Modern bikes use water cooling, we have air to get the job done. Air is a far simpler cooling system, but it is also less efficent at removing heat.

For all practicle purposes, unless you are racing, what's the difference between 100 and 120 HP?

[Anonymous]

For all practicle purposes, unless you are racing, what's the difference between 100 and 120 HP?

Ehh, huge?................. If you can have it, don?t you want it?

[Anonymous]

Quote:
For all practicle purposes, unless you are racing, what's the difference between 100 and 120 HP?


Ehh, huge?................. If you can have it, don?t you want it?

Huge? I'm not so sure about that. So much goes into making a bike fast besides the power out of the engine. Suspension, tires, gearing, and RIDER - above all - the person sitting on it.

As far and getting that extra 20 hp - depends on what you have to do to get it (primarilly cost), and what effect it has on the overall reliability of the engine.

My point being - how much is enough? Some will say they can never get enough. I say they probably can't use properly all they have right now - myself included.

[Anonymous]

SWANNY: Too true what you?re saying, hope you caught my little glimt of irony

I have, after building my engine, looked at things inside it and compared it to newer engines such as the "GIXXER" and it isn?t all about cooling and innovations in newer designs that has increased power. The thing is, in my mind, that though the GS engine is "overbuilt" when it comes to reliability it has not been when it comes to design. Thank you SUZUKI
The main power comes from volume, valvesize, camdesign, portsize/ design and of course fuel/ exhaustsystems. I know a -81 GS that did the quarter mile in 9,9sec back in 1983 and still runs great 20years later. It has been given new pistonrings at one point and the valves has been redone. Normal maintenance after about 30000 miles I would say. Reliable? Should think so. Rideable? Most definite. Power in the engine? 147 hp at the wheel.... Just one example, maybe a bit extreme.
How many bikes today can join/ beat that today? Not to many I think. One thing though: They run smoother than ours.
But why do we stick to the oldies? I know why I do....... :twisted:

[Hap Call]

Water-cooling has allowed several improvements besides the use of mapped fuel injection...it has allowed high compression (due to better heat control and fuel injection reducing pre-detonation) and tighter packages and also allowed for weight reductions. At first it was thought that water cooling would add excessive weight to a bike but once they realized that they would not need the heavy cooling fins they pounced on it. It allows for controlling cooling where it is needed and where it is not needed.

A huge difference in that the 1000cc performance bikes weigh at least 100 pounds less than our bikes...less weight is gained HP. My bike weighed 543lbs dry...the GSXR1000 weighs 370 pounds dry...that is like a bike without a rider!

The days of the GS engine dominating drag racing is coming to an end. Rule changes are allowing hand made v-twins with 2500cc displacement (that?s a 1000cc advantage over the GS motors) to run in Pro Stock...but then again, the last time it was even close to "stock" was in the early Eighties...

Just remember, 20 years from now there will be people talking about the 20 year old GSXR1000 they are still riding and loving despite the new iron out there!

Hap

[saaz]

Hal has made most of my points.

Also, remember modern bikes make high horsepower while still totally stock and street legal - emissions, noise standards etc. Comparing highly modified bikes and standard bikes is a bit misleading.

Also, absolute power figures mean nothing to me. Not all modern bikes are race bikes, quite a few very useful standard bikes (ie what the GS was).

A great running GS1000 is still enough bike for any road riding I can think of. Too much emphais on track speed in modern tests. A bit heavier bike with ok horsepower but monster torque (eg GSX1400) is a great road bike...only 100 horses, but pulls like a train.....hmmm reminds me of an updated GS really, so I may be biased!!

[Anonymous]

..

"Also, remember modern bikes make high horsepower while still totally stock and street legal - emissions, noise standards etc. Comparing highly modified bikes and standard bikes is a bit misleading."

True, but as one other post mentioned...these new bikes have been taken SO far out that bolt on performance is a joke. You can't get more than a few % gain. Take a look at a 'Busa. Besides putting the timing retard eliminator on it (which also eliminates the 186mph governor...gawd...), and maybe installing a super lightweight titanium exhaust, there really aren't any mods available. You can dress it up maybe, but slapping a header, K&Ns, and jet kit on it, and seeing a 40-50% increase are a thing of the past.

I am also on a 300ZX forum and the non-turbo cars are up against the exact same performance wall. The engine is SO advanced that performance mods are pretty much a waste of money. You get very little hp (10-20%) for the money you spend.

[saaz]

Yep, I agree that bolt on performance does little to many new bikes. Bandits do gain about 20% with a simple pipe tho, as do a few other bikes with relatively lower tech development.. I suppose this means that there is no need to spend the money improving performance as it is all there already!!