Starter selenoid bad??

[Anonymous]

Ok so my 1982 GS850L Won't start without me jumping the starter selenoid, that or push starting it works too. How do I find out if the starter selenoid is bad? I've tried evey combination of kick stand up down, clutch in out, Center stand up down, and nothing sems to get it going, the contacts on the button all seems clean.
Thanks for any help

[AOD]

you should make sure the switch on the clutch is not stuck or something...you could try just cutting the wire and splicing it together and then rule out that as a problem.

[nert]

PLEASE don't cut anything. not only will cutting cause more problems down the road, we are talking about fine classic machines here. See if you have battery power to the solenoid. Cross the two large terminals across the top of the solenoid and see if that cranks the engine. If so, check for a signal at the smaller wires (with a test lite or VOM) when you press the start button. I don't have a wiring diagram here, but do at home. If you can keep from cutting, i can be more specific on what wire to test where.

[Anonymous]

I have a wiring diagram for this, but i can't seem to follow it anywhere to fix the problem. I did jump from red to black and that is how Iget it started, that or jump it. I understand how a ciruit works, generally, but I just can't figure out this one.

[mdole]

PLEASE don't cut anything. not only will cutting cause more problems down the road, we are talking about fine classic machines here. See if you have battery power to the solenoid. Cross the two large terminals across the top of the solenoid and see if that cranks the engine. If so, check for a signal at the smaller wires (with a test lite or VOM) when you press the start button. I don't have a wiring diagram here, but do at home. If you can keep from cutting, i can be more specific on what wire to test where.

I agree with the above. If the starter solenoid is bad it will not kick in when you jump across the terminals. If it is shorted you will get some sparks and if it is open you will see no effect. If the starter kicks in and turns the engine when you jump across the terminals (I would use a screw driver with a good plastic handle for this) then the solenoid is good and you need to check the wiring. You really need a wiring diagram to make any rapid progress on checking the wiring. I have done it hand over hand without a diagram but it is very tedious and it is very easy to miss a branch of the starting logic. If you have a diagram and the bike had started fine in the past and then just quit I would check the limit switches for the side stand switch, clutch switch, neutral switch, etc. These can easily be checked by making a jumper, locating the connectors for the switch on interest, disconnecting, jumpering the switch in the connectors to the wiring harness and trying to start the bike. If you have a bad switch the bike will start when you jumper it out then you just need to replace the switch.

Another thing that could happen is that with enough dirty/corroded connections you may be dropping too much voltage to operate the solenoid. You can check this by looking at the voltage being supplied before the starter button and logic string and compare it to what is being delivered to the solenoid on the hot side of the smaller terminals. If you find that this is a problem you may just need to clean all of the connectors. I have found that a small gun barrel brush and contact cleaner works well on the bullet connectors. For the flat female connectors a folded piece of Emory cloth then contact cleaner and a wire brush works.

I don't have a manual with me here so I don't know what the logic is but in the past couple of years I have run into the following problems:

On a 1970 Yamaha YCS3C that had been sitting for at least 8 years I found that the voltage delivered to the solenoid was only 4V out of the 12.5V supplied to the circuit this was due to a combination of corroded connections and a flaky neutral switch. On a 1984 Honda Sabre I would turn over but would not start. On this bike there was a permissive circuit that would stop the started from working and a permissive circuit that stopped the ignition from firing. I ended up finding a bad side stand switch and then it was still hard to start and would only start from a fully charged battery. The problem was dirty connections that dropped the voltage to the coils and igniters to 8V when the started was running and this was not enough to fire the igniters reliably by experimentation I found that on this bike anything less than 10V to the igniters would not reliably start the bike.

If you have to unwrap a portion of the harness to trace wires you can either wrap it up with electrical tape or if it is a long portion you can get some split vinyl wiring loom protectors from an auto parts store to protect the harness. Shrink tubing works to but I find that it can wear through quickly if it rubs on metal parts.

Mike

[Anonymous]

Mike, you're talking about taking the small wire on the solenoid and touch it to the big terminal coming from the battery, right? That's the test I'd do to find out if the solenoid is working correctly.
Shorting the two big terminals will test the starter.

[Anonymous]

starter solenoid bad?

One very easy check no-one has mentioned yet:

Have you checked for a good earth? Solenoid must be earthed through its's metal casing. Usually, this means through the battery box- to- frame
earth return, an unreliable system at the best of times. Fries your reg/rectifier too, as we all know!

Try bolting an extra earth lead between one of the solenoid mounting bolts and the battery negative post.

And do the same for your reg/rec before it melts.

[SqDancerLynn1]

there is a small green/black or what ever color wire on the solonide jumper direct to the battery + if the starter works the solonide is ok. Next step Check the wiring the clutch/side stand switches plug into the harness, usually you can bypass them just by unpluging the wires and reconnecting the two ends together for testing.

[bgmart450]

[img]http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0RwDpANoV3yFq7!jMuQc9Q9zMhfG6IwTQsJNPGackpzHriNS0j j1M8dnheQ9nn6*MASutkh!wAEzmeXGYy22nQb1YLYxTmoEYHSH tiFg!i74/start.jpg?dc=4675442099593876315[/img]

So if I connect the rusty bolt there to the shiny bolt and it starts then its NOT the solenoid? My wife's bike has had this problem since we got it this July.

[moto_dan]

So if I connect the rusty bolt there to the shiny bolt and it starts then its NOT the solenoid? My wife's bike has had this problem since we got it this July.

No. Doing as you suggest bypasses the solenoid completely. No different than connecting a heavy wire from the "+" side of the battery directly to the post on the starter. But gauging from the rust on the solenoid post, I would clean all my connections and grounds.

[Anonymous]

Take the yellow/green wire over there on the left, unplug it from the harness, and touch it to the big post going to the battery (or to the (+) on the battery itself, safer to the post though, sparks and all). If it turns over, THEN you know it's not the solenoid.

[mdole]

Take the yellow/green wire over there on the left, unplug it from the harness, and touch it to the big post going to the battery (or to the (+) on the battery itself, safer to the post though, sparks and all). If it turns over, THEN you know it's not the solenoid.

This is right sorry I got side tracked when I was writing the previous post and was going to start with checking the starter and then the solenoid followed by the limit switches. I jumped back in and didn't realize I'd lost my place.

Mike

[Mobetter]

Kirk is exactly right about making good grounds.
A good ground on the rectifier is also neccessary
or it can actually charge the battery box and keep the
solenoid from tripping.
I've copied a post that I made in Feb.

Posted: Sun Feb 09, 2003 6:51 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I finally figured out my problem!!!!!! .

Nobody would have ever guessed this one!

I started checking voltages and noticed as I had said earlier
that I could jump from the yellow green wire on the starter relay to the hot when the bike was off and the relay would connect and the starter would start.
But when I turn the ignition switch on, I couldn't even jump it in this manner.

Makes no sense, but here comes the interesting part.

The green and yellow wire from the relay was showing voltage
when I had it unhooked and the ignition switch on.
This current was heading in the wrong direction!
Current is supposed to be coming in on this wire when the
ignition/clutch pulled in/and start button is pushed and that's what trips
the relay and sends current to the starter.

Where was this backwards juice coming from?
After checking wiring diagrams I thought the relay wan't grounding properly.
I unhooked the relay from the battery box with all the electrical connections still intact and ran an aligator clip ground to a motor bolt
and MAGIC! The starter fired right up!

I checked the threaded part where the relay was supposed to screw into, and with the ignition switch on, I was getting 9 volts coming from the battery box! Apparently the rectifier wire ground that I had run to
the motor wasn't grounding good enough and the battery box was becoming charged, this in turn charged the outside of the relay
and the wire that was supposed to trip the relay.

So I had a charged relay wire with 10.7 volts coming in with 9 volts
trying to go the other way and a net of 1.7volts trying to trip the relay
(assuming current was equivalent).

I guess what pushed this all over the edge was when I was cleaning connections I had also soldered the incoming hot wire to the regulator to get better current and apparent that was enough without a good ground
to exaggerate the problem enough that it caused my starter not to work.

I guess the moral to the story is get a good ground on the rectifier
and maybe take it off of the battery box completely because it
can charge the box and play havoc with the electricals

Peace
Mo
_________________
1980 Gs1000L
I'm not perfect yet but I'm Mobetter than I used to be.

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[Anonymous]

Well I know what it is just not where it is. Last night when Iwas getting ready to take it for a ride, I thought what the hell and pushed the little button and the starter turned over, and the bike started. So I definatly have a short somewhere, where is the next question, I'll try to trouble shoot it today.

[bgmart450]

Yeah same here... I put the solenoid from my 450E on the 450S and they both are working. Now its wire tracking time......