About shafts and such

[Anonymous]

ARTICLE HAS BEEN CORRRECTED(November 15)

Ok, first off I drive a chain drive, I don't wanna start a fight so I'll say this, *shaft* is much less maintenance, likely safer(chains could take a leg off or send you down if it snaps or locks) but chain and sprockets offer more variety. So NO and I mean NO arguing about shaft vs. chain or even vs. belt if any of you actually want to admit to that.

Now, I want to know how shaft works on a bike, I understand the idea and concept of shaft on cars and trucks wher the shaft goes to the middle of the axle and such, I don't need explanation on that, what I wanna know is where the shaft connects to a motorclye axle? Which side? how does it make the 90 degree angle? how does the tranny/engine drive the shaft?

And to make the answers easier, here's a brief idea for one of my off the wall ideas. (1)Take a three wheeler/or 4 wheeler frame. (2)Put a motorcycle front tire/shocks/bars/etc. on front, not hard at all. (3)Put a large engine in the frame, make adjustments if necessary, drive rear axle, either chain or shaft. (4)Replace tires to something like what you'd find on a Goldwing trike kit. (5)Ride longer and during more weather conditions.

Got it? So if I take a chain drive rear axle, I would just need to find a much smaller rear sprocket, cause I know the ones on my Honda ATC 185's are HUGE, I can pull wheelies with ease and I think that's the idea, low end power with loss of high end speed. So you decrease the size of the rear sprocket and increase top end so you can ride on the highway, but not so much that the thing'll do 240 but takes four hours of constant acceleration to get there.

But if I get a shaft which I would prefer I THINK, how do I work that, like do I have to find an engine from a shaftie? Will it make my life easier if I do? is the gearing in the stock shaft/axle on the ATV going to limit my speed? Or will that be controlled primarily by tranny/engine?

So for those of you who aren't lost and can help me, reply here and/or email me at barrygrb@hotmail.com

For those of you who follow and say: You'll never get it insured. I live in New Brunswick, Canada. Therefore I actually don't have to pass a safety inspection, so that makes it a little easier, I do still have to follow the law, IE headlight at night, brake light, turn signals....... And as far as insurance goes, I can work that to insure it as a custom trike.

So, can it be done? And if so, how? Right now I'm looking primarily at the final drive. Will keep all of you updated if I start the project, and will shock even myself if I ever finish it.

Wish me luck and thanks for the tons of responses I'm sure I will get.

[Anonymous]

chain is much less maintenance, likely safer(chains could take a leg off or send you down if it snaps or locks)

I think the first word in this quote above should be "shaft", not chain. I'm sure that's what you meant.

Anyway, to answer your question about which side. The answer is that it doesn't matter. On transverse-four shafties like the GS Suzuki or the XS Yamaha the shaft is on the left side of the rear wheel, as you sit on the bike. On my Moto Guzzi it was on the right side, and I believe on Gold Wings it's also on the right.

The 90-degree angle is achieved by a middle-gear box that sits on the left rear of the engine itself. The power comes off the transmission output shaft, then goes to a bevel helical gear that is meshed with a driven gear that, in turn, rotates the driveshaft.

This, of course, is corrected again through the bevel gears in the rear box.

Frankly, it sounds like an interesting project, but to me at least, in my opinion, it isn't worth the time or money.

Nick

[robinjo]

In my opinion it's easier to go with a chain driven engine, less difficult to line up the sprockets then to fiddle with the shaft AND you can adjust the gear ratios easily, wich you will need to do to get a good balance between acceleration and top end. To be sure that you have enough power use a 1100E or 1150 motor :twisted: I assume you want to put the motor in the back of the trike so that you can have a short drive chain, read somewhere recently about a formula car w/ bike engine that only need 55 or 60 links compared to 96 links on my bike.

Offcourse you have to keep us updated on anything with a GS engine in it, including LOTS of pics

[Anonymous]

Ok, so if I buy an engine from a shaftie am I going to ba able to make a chain drive? Cause I'm guessing it'll be easier to find a shaft drive large engine (1100 and up). I have absolutely no idea if this project will ever start, but if it does I will take lots of pics for sure and keep you all updated. So anyone got a cheap bike to sell me? with a working large engine?

[Anonymous]

Some of my counterparts at school have made Formula SAE cars with Honda motors and there is a lot of work to make the back work properly.
What you need to consider are:
-rear differential and axles that can handle highway speeds
-rear brakes
-chain adjustment (if you take a bike shaft there won't be a diff or 2 axles)

Every year the students chose to make a differential mounted on bearings. Doing this allows you to put a single brake disc on the outside of the diff as well as have a fully independant suspension. The only problem is that you'll lose your rear brakes if you lift a rear tire off of the ground...

I've also seen that using a 3rd sprocket as a tensioner doesn't work very well. Having a small sprocket (10 teeth or so) makes a LOT of noise when it spins fast.

Anyway, I have some pictures of the rear setup that I could post if you're interested. They don't have much detail as I wasn't focusing on the diff when I took them.

Cheers, Steve

[Anonymous]

Hey
that sounds really cool, what do they do with the cars after the season?

I think I will go chain, because it seems a little easier and cheaper. I can hear the shafties out there telling me the cost is offset in the long run, but I'm gonna go chain, for now. So I have two option as far as engine placement.

1. Up front like usual, with a long chain and regular everything else.
2. Further back with a shorter chain but super long shifter, longer wiring and throttle control, shorter exhausts, and likely more frame modifications. Oh and let's not forget fuel line, unless I move the tank too. It's a tough choice. Not really if those were the only differences. But shorter chain means more power right? But is it worth all that hassle?

The way I look at it is that if I can get a 750-1100 engine into an old rolling chassis three wheeler frame and get it to run the rear wheels then I've got the faster three wheeler around, not likely THE fastest ever, but up there. Doing that alone would cost very little really, just the engine and a frame which I already have, it would likely need to be strengthened but even then, I'm out the cost of the engine and some welding and a couple of sprockets and a chain.

So I ride that around and see how it works and if all is well I fit a battery box so I don't have to use a battery charger set on boost to start it. So now I have a free running machine with likely some weird exhaust system (unless I get lucky and the frame and engine allow for reg. exhaust to fit in) So now I have the fastest electric start machine around. Now to get it road legal. That's where it gets pricey with a huge parts list including changing the front end and rear tires/rims.

However, if I can get to the fast electric start three wheeler then I would be set, it would all be a matter of time and cash flow after that.

Let me know what you guys think about the whole chain length issue and what else I should think about there. Also, can I buy any engine and make it chain drive without huge difficulties?

Looking at a Yamaha XS 1100 for $700 canadian "Runs well, needs work" type deal. Although I would MUCH rather prefer a GS engine. Any comments on the XS?

[Anonymous]

When you are ready for a sprocket you can have one made for you. Apparently it's the same price as an OEM sprocket and you can have any number of teeth you want. This will be better than looking through a pile of sprockets and modifying one.

One question I have is how good is a trike's suspension? I suspect a big bump on the highway would put you un the rhubarb.

As for the cars at the end of the year, they get destroyed. They are taken to a government warehouse and crashed like you see on TV. Generally, the 4130 steel roll cage folds up into a coffin but they are working on that... :roll:

They've always gone with an airshifter and clutch pedal on the cars. To make the clutch pedal work you need to put a longer arm on motorcycle gearbox depending on cable routing.

http://www.mae.carleton.ca/maehtmls/...2003-fsae.html has a brief photo of an old car.

Something else I've though of is that racing quads are often fabricated around motorcycle drivetrains. You should definately do a search on this sort of thing. Quadzilla is one example of a GS1100 quad.

Steve

[argonsagas]

I have not tried looking this up, but somewhere on the internet you should be able to find information on the first Honda cars that were imported to North America.

I don't recall the years they were imported, but they had a motorcycle engine, and were chain-driven.

[Anonymous]

I just remembered that racing go-karts have motorcycle engines too. I think they would have the best differentials to use as they are meant to go fast.

Steve

[redliner1973]

i believe those were the CVCC's. they were small 2 cyl air cooled cars, with a top speed about 50-60 mph. :twisted:

[Anonymous]

If you think you can pop wheelies on your ATC 185 now wait until you put a 750 or 1100 motor in there.....end over, end over, end! You may just be able to throw an 1100 motor into an old trike fame and have it go down the road. To make it actually livable and survivable you will have to certainly work out a better suspension along with a stiffened / gusetted frame. I like the idea alot and would love to watch you develope it but buckle up!

Oh, and unless there is a Canadian model XS1100 model option that I am unaware of, the XS motor you are considering is a shaft drive.