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To hone or not to hone...

  • Thread starter Thread starter Hap Call
  • Start date Start date
i can see the honing thing being correct hap but the business about how far the new compression ring travels seems backwards regardless of weather you have a ridge or not
 
I agree with him Hap there is no need in my opinion to either "de-glaze" or remove the top ring ridge.
Dink
 
I do agree about the de-glazing.....a smoother/polished bore is definitely better than having to re-set everything, and the additional wear involved is unavoidable.

Interestingly, it was not mentioned that chrome-lining of cylinders has been around a long time, and that is definitely a smooth surface. Iron rings seat perfectly against the chrome, and the combination is very long-lasting.

On the ridge issue...I would clean it off. Agreed, there is a reasonable argument for ignoring it, excepting where pistons are removed through the upper part of the block, but my concern is that I would never do rings alone, but always replace bearings as well.

Worn rings would obviously leave the ridge above them, as the engine was running in that condition. If the original pistons were being reinstalled, new rings would be incrementally higher.

If new pistons were being installed, the lands would have no wear, and the rise would again be incrementally higher.

Bearings tend to wear more on the top of the crankshaft, so new bearings would be tighter as well, and the rise caused by the new bearings would be incrementally higher again.

With possibly three incremental rises in ring height within the cylinder, I would want to remove the ridge.



Additional small point

I have seen some rather rough and large ridges. The engine worked OK in that condition, but new rings, properly fitted, would slightly alter the position of the piston within the cylinder, leaving it possible for the piston to have some contact with the ridge, and ANY contact would damage the piston. If a new piston were to be installed, I would not want that risk, either.
 
I have seen guys fit new rings without "glaze-busting" the bore, and have immediate problems with burning more oil than before re-ringing.
But I don't know what sort of rings they used (chrome faced or cast iron) I didn't know that you had a choice!
When I've rebuilt a motor I've always examined the state of the bore first, checking for the difference in wear along the length of the bore. If thats OK, I the measure ring gap - if thats OK as well I'll refit the old rings, keeping the to the same pistons/bore that they came out of.
 
I have been told that Ajax (I believe it Ajax) cleaner (abrasive) can be used to seat rings if needed by a very reputable motor builder. It has enough grit to seat the rings. (I have not tryed this though)
 
Ajax cleaner

Ajax cleaner

RobT
Please tell me who is this reputable builder who recomends the use of
Ajax cleaner to seat teh rings. In over 30 yrs building engine I have never heard of this method. Please provide us with the details.

Thanks Archie
 
Paul wrote:

When I've rebuilt a motor I've always examined the state of the bore first, checking for the difference in wear along the length of the bore. If thats OK, I the measure ring gap - if thats OK as well I'll refit the old rings, keeping the to the same pistons/bore that they came out of.
Click to expand...

That sounds like putting it back together, not rebuilding! :wink:
I know, there's a smart Alec in every crowd. :lol:

Peace
Mo
 
I would do it however Honda makes their 4 cylinder car engines. There is no way anybody could refute their manufacturing practices.

Steve
 
The AJAX method was used mostly in the fifties and sixties by independent mechanics to help 'repair' older engines that burned oil, but still had 'life' left in them. believe it or not it actually worked in many cases, but i don't know how. the way it was done was to get a tablespoon of AJAX, or more commonly BON-AMI, as it was 'finer' than AJAX, remove th air cleaner, rev the engine up and down while slowly letting the cleaner get sucked into the carb. Then change the oil. It supposedly takes about 2 Tbsp over a 15 minute period to achieve the desired results. Maybe I can get an old smoking lawnmower and try it. never know... :twisted:
 
srivett said:
I would do it however Honda makes their 4 cylinder car engines. There is no way anybody could refute their manufacturing practices.

Steve
Click to expand...

There is no argument about honing after the cylinder has been bored...the question is should you do it when you are only changing the rings.

Hap
 
Robt said:
I have been told that Ajax (I believe it Ajax) cleaner (abrasive) can be used to seat rings if needed by a very reputable motor builder. It has enough grit to seat the rings. (I have not tryed this though)
Click to expand...
sounds almot as good as putting rubbing compound into the oil sump.
 
Hap: I figured you were going to go up another size for some reason. Back to the topic, I know that if you lug your new bike too much it will polish up the jugs before it breaks in the rings. This gives bad performance. I would expect skipping the cross hatching gives the same result but .... hehe, I have no idea. :)

Steve
 
If there is enough of a ridge to be conserned about IT probably needs to be rebored
 
As I said the info came from a very high quality local race engine builder. I also confirmed this technique with a friend whose family races an alcohol funny car. He agreed.
 
I will phone the guy up and get the details of how to use the Ajax. BTW, if you think about it, Ajax is an fine abraisive and this is what you need to seat rings that are polishished a bit. Something to rough them and the cyclinders up a up a bit.
 
SqDancerLynn1 said:
If there is enough of a ridge to be conserned about IT probably needs to be rebored
Click to expand...

Actually, it has 40,000 miles on this bore and you can still see the cross-hatching from my last rebuild. Synthetic oil is great!!! :D

Hap
 
Unless the ridge is really bad, no need to remove it.

The old AJAX trick was used around here to temporarily fix up motors with known soft rings/bores before selling. It should not be need on road cars unless it is to cover up some other problem.

Hmmm..if synthetic is so great, why the need for a rebuild so soon? I have forgotten what the problem is it has been so long!!!
 
saaz said:
Hmmm..if synthetic is so great, why the need for a rebuild so soon? I have forgotten what the problem is it has been so long!!!
Click to expand...

It was starting to smoke due to over heating in traffic... my valve seals were hard as rocks.

Hap
 
Hap: I thought the GS bikes ran cooler at idle than on the freeway. Did it overheat because of the big pistons?

Steve
 
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