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Transmission - Too much...

  • Thread starter Thread starter TheBigRed
  • Start date Start date
T

TheBigRed

Guest
Here goes.

The whole purpose of the engine re-build was to replace the transmission due to a second gear "slipping" problem.

As I had read through on searches and after talking to a mechanic, I believed that the reason second gear was "missing" under load (ie heavier accelleration or going up hill) was due to worn dogs.

However, as I have now split the cases and gotten down to the transmission, upon visual inspection the dogs do not seem to be worn, or show any excess wear that I would have expected to see due to this problem.

The shift forks are also not excessively worn either.

So, what are the possabilities?

Did I catch the transmission problem before it was durrastic, and thus why there doesn't seem to be any excessive wear, and since I had been driving around shifting past second in order to not cause more damage have also minimized wear to the point that I"m not recognizing it? I had seen pictures on a site showing worn dogs and mine are nowhere near that. The dogs for the other gears look to be in about the same condition as those for second gear, and I do not have problems in those gears.

The plan at the moment is to take the "new" (read bought on e-bay as used) transmission gears and place them onto my current Counter shaft and drive shaft (as the drive shaft sprocket teeth seem excessively worn on the "new" transmission) then place them back into the engine and put it all back together.

However I'm looking for any other possabilities as to what might be causing my problem.

Thanks in Advance for your assistance.

Amos
 
bump..

bump..

Ok, after reading a harley site, I think I'm going to make sure my shift fork isn't bent, as that may be keeping the gear from engaging via the dogs.

Unfortunately, right now I need to replace the leaf springs in my truck so money for the cycle is going to be majorly limited for a little while. I believe I've got most of the major things for the rebuild. Probably just some "O" rings, yammabond, and locktite to get yet, then cleaning the engine really well, then she goes back together. Hopefully..

Amos
 
You did say 2nd gear "slipping" problem didn't you? Gears just don't slip, they either work or they don't. If you mean slipping out of gear, that's a different thing altogether. Just trying to figure out what you have going on, not trying to bust your a$$ :lol: . Bob
 
uhm.. yeah

uhm.. yeah

You did say 2nd gear "slipping" problem didn't you? Gears just don't slip, they either work or they don't. If you mean slipping out of gear, that's a different thing altogether. Just trying to figure out what you have going on, not trying to bust your a$$ . Bob
Click to expand...

Yeah, It is hard to explain. but it feels like it hops into and out of gear while under heavy acceleration. It could feel like, say teeth on a sprocket are stripped at a certain area, because it will grab, then not grab, then grab, then not grab.. kinda hard to explain.

Amos
 
Sure it's only 2nd gear doing this? Would seem that if it was a gear or dog issue that something would let go. Maybe it's a clutch problem, my 850 will do this in 2nd when it's cold but after it warms up it's fine. Bob
 
Yup

Yup

I'm sure it only does it in second gear, and it does it cold or warmed up.

I can hammer it in any other gear and there is nothing like happens in second gear, no slipping, nothing.

Amos
 
Re: uhm.. yeah

Re: uhm.. yeah

TheBigRed said:
Yeah, It is hard to explain. but it feels like it hops into and out of gear while under heavy acceleration. It could feel like, say teeth on a sprocket are stripped at a certain area, because it will grab, then not grab, then grab, then not grab.. kinda hard to explain.
Click to expand...

When it "hops" out of gear does the engine rev way up as though it were in neutral or do you just lose power? If it revs way up then the problem is in the drive train but if it's a loss of power, it could be something like fuel starvation, which is something I've had a small problem with lately.

Michael
 
Yup

Yup

It deffinately Rev's up till it grabs again. It doesn't rev long before it does grab again. (should also add that it doesn't rev WAY up as I was aware of the problem when I first got it on the road and always tried to either take it really easy in second, or would totally skip second (part of why I'm insistant on getting this fixed as I have found myself on other bikes skipping second when there is no need))

Like I said, I'm going to check to make sure the shift fork isnt bent.

I'm also thinking that the perhaps the shift cam may be worn and allowing the shift fork to move out enough that it is causing the problem. (I'm hoping not as a replacement one will cost me in the area of $100 non e-bay)

Amos
 
I would have the gears back cut. Sometimes the wear
will not be visable without carefull measurement
 
Maybe I should...

Maybe I should...

Thanks Lynn,

After thinking about it a bit this morning I think maybe I should look towards going this route anyway. That way the probelem shouldn't come up again, at least for as long as I own the bike. However cost may be the prohibitive factor here. I just looked and the one cycle shop here has an "In-House" machine shop. I think I'll give them a call and see if they can give me an idea of the cost, even if I have to stop by with the transmission to get an estimate.

Anybody have any ideas what a good price should be? I've looked on Ape's site and just for second gear they want $100 (but it looks like to do the whole thing it is only about $150+ more)

I'll probably give the shop a call here when they open to see if I can get some idea.

If I go this route, there may soon be a transmission from a 550 in the parts for sale section. (I got it off of e-bay, so I'm not sure of the condition but I can take pictures)

Amos

SqDancerLynn1 said:
I would have the gears back cut. Sometimes the wear
will not be visable without carefull measurement
Click to expand...
 
Well, called the shop that has a machine shop on site. They don't undercut transmissions, and don't know of anyone in the area that does. 8O

Oh, well, I guess I'm back to the drawing board. Unless there is someone out there that has any other ideas.

Or, do I look for a griding wheel and do it myself. (kinda not liking this idea as I'd only be guessing as to exactly what I'm doing from what I've read on it, and would prefer that someone who knows what they are doing do it.)

Amos
 
So far..

So far..

Ok,
Contacted a couple of places here on the east coast about undercutting the transmission.

So far, only one reply.

From: Fast by Gast out of New York
(anybody ever heard/dealt with them)

$220 and one week to do the work.

This sound about right?
I'm going to have to save up a couple of more weeks if I can't find cheaper.. but I want to ride..

Amos
 
$220 sounds like a good price from a quality place. Your shift fork is the most likely culprit, are you sure you're looking at the right one? The shift drum will often become damaged if the bike is ridden a lot while jumping out of gear. The damage is just a little dot of wear at one of the worm-bends, but it is enough to cause the same problem to re-occur even with new gears and forks.
 
drat

drat

Don Lobacz said:
$220 sounds like a good price from a quality place. Your shift fork is the most likely culprit, are you sure you're looking at the right one? The shift drum will often become damaged if the bike is ridden a lot while jumping out of gear. The damage is just a little dot of wear at one of the worm-bends, but it is enough to cause the same problem to re-occur even with new gears and forks.
Click to expand...

Not what I wanted to hear. I will take a closer look at it all when I get home this afternoon. If it is the shift drum then the undercutting won't happen, as the drum is going to cost a pretty penny.. (though it will be less than the undercutting, just that in combination the undercutting may prevent the next shift drum from going this route as well.. )

Amos
 
Fast By Gast has an excellent reputation. Also check with Cope Engineering, Murdoch Racing, Orient Express, and Star Racing for more transmission options.

Hap
 
Ok

Ok

Don Lobacz said:
$220 sounds like a good price from a quality place. Your shift fork is the most likely culprit, are you sure you're looking at the right one? The shift drum will often become damaged if the bike is ridden a lot while jumping out of gear. The damage is just a little dot of wear at one of the worm-bends, but it is enough to cause the same problem to re-occur even with new gears and forks.
Click to expand...

Don, looks like you hit this one on the head.

On closer investigation the shift drum does have quite a bit of wear where the shift fork should be held in place for 2nd gear.
I haven't measured, but the shift fork itself doesn't look worn excessively (I can see where the transmission would rub against it, that doesn't look natural {ie it isn't an even wear}), and like I said before, the dogs don't look like what I would think they would (however I have not been able to check where they engage as I have not taken the transmission itself apart.

So, what are the chances that the shift drum is the whole culprit? I really would like to get it all taken care of so I'm not looking at another re-build any time soon. I can't really afford the back cutting the gears since I have to purchase the shift drum. I also can't afford all new shift forks at this point either.

However, that being said, if consensus is that I should go all new with the drum and forks. I will just have to try to come up with the other moneys.

Either way though, I'm not going to be able to have the gears back cut as well.

So, is it possable that the gears are all good, and it was just abuse that caused the drum to wear excessively while everything else is fine?

Ahhh.. soo much I wish I could do if I had the money..

Amos
 
Red,

Each time your bike jumps out of gear, it wears those dogs and will only get worse, even with your other issues resloved. Save the money, send out the trans and have it all done. Shop for pricing, dont matter where you go for the work. Ship the stuff. As said, MRE, R&D, Star, Orient Express, APE, FBG are all good. There are probably that many more shops that could do your work. If your gears are worn, you will have to buy new ones before you undercut.

Good Luck!
 
gsbill said:
Red,

Each time your bike jumps out of gear, it wears those dogs and will only get worse, even with your other issues resloved. Save the money, send out the trans and have it all done. Shop for pricing, dont matter where you go for the work. Ship the stuff. As said, MRE, R&D, Star, Orient Express, APE, FBG are all good. There are probably that many more shops that could do your work. If your gears are worn, you will have to buy new ones before you undercut.

Good Luck!
Click to expand...

Ok, I just went and saw what I could, and I've got to agree with you.

I'm approaching as much to fix the bike as I paid for it (probably a bit more)

I'm going to go price the gears and stuff at bike bandit, see what I"ll be looking at here.

(after thinking about it, I'm thinking I should just go the whole 9 yards while I"ve got it apart, that or part out Old Red and see if I can find another (maybe larger) :wink: GS for about what it's going to cost me to fix her up.

(got my eyes on a possable new baby..)

Amos
 
Prices...

Prices...

Ok, here goes..

(bike-bandit prices mind you, which I haven't been able to find the parts on ronayers grrr)

shift forks 3 @ 40 $120
Shift fork shaft 1@ $11
Shift drum 1@ $91
Bearing for shift drum $12

total:$234
(let alone all new transmission gears at about $70 each)

Transmission undercut (only quote so far) $220

grand total: $454

Price for Old Red 2 years ago: $450 +tax=$477

Plus all the other incedentals, and gaskets..

Opinions??

Amos
 
none..

none..

Oh, well.

No replies on this.

And after thinking about it, It is not very cost effective for me to dump this much money into the 550 :cry: and still not be completely 100% sure it will all be good. (chances are it would, but it would be very costly)

As such I've decided to part out Old Red (drat, just named her too.. :? ) in order to get money for a new ride, one that won't require as much money to get riding in the next month..

So, I'm possably going to offer GSers first dibs on her pieces. Make me a resonable offer and we'll see what we can do. (I'll also be posting in the parts for sale section as well)

After that it's off to e-bay. (first time I'll have sold anything on e-bay too..)
 
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