Oil

[Boozy Creek Beast]

Is there a differnce in Motorcycle Oil & Automotive car oil some say YES some say NO?

[focus frenzy]

yes, price!!!!
PS thanks for pouring gas on that old fire!!!!

if the makers claims are to be believed, yes there is difference, motorcycles especially air cooled ones have way different needs to a car engine.
motor cycles are much harder on the oil, you have sheer loads in the transmission that auto engines don't have.

[Anonymous]

Fire

Wrong cars have sheer loads on the trans also, most of the mid 80 to late 90 ford trucks use 10-40 motor oil in trans, got you, and my ranger trans has 200,000 thou on it with syn. motor oil. by a good turbo appoved motor oil, and be done with it.

[jimcor]

Extra Virgin Olive Oil with a Raw Garlic Additive and maybe a hint of basil and oregano seems to work best.

[jimcor]

Re: Fire

Wrong cars have sheer loads on the trans also, most of the mid 80 to late 90 ford trucks use 10-40 motor oil in trans, got you, and my ranger trans has 200,000 thou on it with syn. motor oil. by a good turbo appoved motor oil, and be done with it.

Crap. You want to read what you wrote again? "CARS have sheer loads on the trans also, most of the mid 80 to late 90 ford TRUCKS..."

Got you????? Gedoutahere, Leon was clearly discussing a unit construction Japanese motorcycle engine that shares its engine oil with the transmission. Your Ranger's transmission fluid (oil) is not shared with the engine. Plus he stated IF the maker's claims are to be believed...

And Leon, sorry for buttin' in. I know you're a professional mechanic who can speak for himself. This just kinda irked me. :roll:

[Anonymous]

I use Castrol GTX 10W-40. I've used it for years and my bikes run just fine. There may be some advantage to the oils marketed as being just for motorcycles, but I don't know what it is. My owner's manual doesn't mention it, either. Some folks use a heavier oil, which is probably a good idea if you live in a hot climate.

I've read a lot of posts by folks who say the synthetics are good. I have no reason to doubt what they say but haven't used any so I can't comment.

You do want to avoid low-friction oils or any low-friction additives. They can damage your clutch. So in that case, there is a very definite difference between those oils and motorcycle oils. You don't have to go to a motorcycle oil to avoid the additives, however.

[SqDancerLynn1]

I use castrol GTX too 10/40 winter 20/50 in the summer. The truth is that todays car oils are much better than the oil recomended by Suzuki when our bikes were new.

[KEITH KRAUSE]

OK. Don't beat me for bringing this up. Last time I asked I couldn't get any definite answers.
When I first found this site, I read that you shouldn't put any oil rated beyond "SH" in a roller bearing crank, because oil rated beyond API "SH" is literally too slippery. The roller bearings will tend to slide instead of roll???
If you had read this article, you would probably believe it too. Did anyone else read this? I thought I found it along with the "everything you wanted to know about oil" article that's still here. If that's where it was, it's gone now. Any thoughts on this rating stuff? Anyone here have a high mileage bike they know for a fact has always run on oils rated "SJ"?
For my own peace of mind, I've been using Motul 10/40 SH "motorcycle" oil. I'm happy with it but I would like to try other brands. I tried 20/50 Castrol "Actevo" and it made my clutch drag badly. The dragging may be related to my aftermarket clutch fibers. I used to be able to run 20/50 with my stock fibers, but the thicker oil has caused the dragging problem with these thicker aftermarket plates. The moment I changed the oil to 10/40, the dragging was gone. Thanks for any info.

[SqDancerLynn1]

In cold weather the 20/50 requires more of a warm up, The clutch (stock)WILL drag and move the bike forward when cold Works fine once motor is warm If it gets cold I start the bike and let it warm up and work the clutch lever a few times, then shut the motor off put it in gear and then restart. It saves the trans. I always advise against using syn because of old gaskets turns into oil leaks real quick
I have asked the Question about synthetic & the roller crank before too, That would be a good question for Falcon Crankshaft. With reg oil I can aford to change it more often

[focus frenzy]

Keith, the oils beyond sh are slicker but it is more a problem with wet clutches, it causes them to slip, some clutch plates are more susceptible than others but it is a problem.
as for it causing the bearings in the crank to slip and not turn? well I am not sure about that, if it is slick enough for the bearing to slid, it is slick enough to not cause any undo wear, friction equals wear.

thats OK Jim, but he does make a good point.
Gee-s-is, the main difference is those (GM loves 10w30 in manuals) automotive transmissions were designed for motor oil and in fords case dextron.
the shape of the gears is optimized to spread the load over a wider area of the gear teeth, allowing lighter weight oils to be used.
the big difference between modern auto motive transmissions and our bikes is, our bikes use the oil for both transmission and the engine.
it gets the oil very hot, normally reaching temps in excess of 230*F
a automotive transmission fluid might reach 150*F max in a car transmission.

[Anonymous]

Any thoughts on this rating stuff? Anyone here have a high mileage bike they know for a fact has always run on oils rated "SJ"?

I've been using an SJ rated oil from my local motor factor's for the last 4 or 5 years,I have it on good authority it's refined by Esso,and my 550 has well over 100000 miles up.The only major work on the engine has been a rebore to 1st oversize and a head overhaul(valve seals).It works for me.No problems from the clutch,crank or gearbox,apart from sometimes jumping out of 2nd gear,been doing that for as long as I can remember,but a good firm boot sorts that out. Oh yeah,I change the oil every 1200 to 1500 miles.

[saaz]

Keith

I think the bearing slip problem is a bit of a myth. On some oil site I read that roller bearing prefer not to be oil too much, but that too slippery an oil could never be a problem.

I haven't used an SJ oil for ages, but have been using SL oil in the GS for the past few years. No clutch problems, no disasters etc etc. The oils were not energy conserving, and in fact I used a semi-synthetic as well.

My past experince has been that car oils of average quality need to be chnaged more often (at least 2500kms or sooner). Better quality car oils and bike oils can be changed at longer intervals (5000kms). Modern decent car oils are as good or better than bike specific ones I used to use all the time (BelRay Exp).

I have read of problems with the really low rated oils (0W-30, 0W-40 etc) as these are not at all shear stable, which is what you need in the bike.

[KEITH KRAUSE]

Thanks for the replies.
Boozy Creek Beast, I'm not trying to hi-jack your topic.
Lynn, when I first found out 20/50 oil combined with my aftermarket fibers caused the dragging, I did the same routine as you. I really wanted the thicker oil in there, especially when it's summertime.
But the bike just shouldn't lurch forward like that (even with the front brake in) and even though I'm not sure about this, I could swear the shifting was just a bit harder too, even when hot. What helped lead me to think this was the shift lever started to loosen. This happened two times in less than a year. The bike never did this before. To me, this was more proof that I really was pushing a little harder on the lever to get clean shifts. Since going back to 10/40, the shifter doesn't loosen up anymore. I'm keeping my bike and I don't need to accelerate wear on the gears, etc.
I've thought about going back to genuine Suzuki fibers but I probably won't, at least not soon. I wish I had specifically asked for Suzuki plates when the motor was built. For some dumb reason I just assumed they would install Suzuki plates. The Suzuki factory manual says to use 10/40, so I'm OK with that.
Instead of the extra protection of 20/50, I may use 10/40 synthetic if I go on a long trip. But then I may get oil leaks I hear! :roll:
This stuff gets to be a headache. Maybe the factory knows best and 10/40 should be used all the time? The oil galleries are small and with the low pressure, maybe 20 wt doesn't lube properly before warm up? This wouldn't matter to people who don't keep a bike long, but if the bike is a keeper and used for commuting and pleasure, a little accelerated wear at every cold start up adds up.

[lhanscom]

Maybe the factory knows best and 10/40 should be used all the time? The oil galleries are small and with the low pressure, maybe 20 wt doesn't lube properly before warm up? This wouldn't matter to people who don't keep a bike long, but if the bike is a keeper and used for commuting and pleasure, a little accelerated wear at every cold start up adds up.

Actually if you dig a bit deeper in the manual, at least in the GS700 maintainence manual, it suggests different oils for different temps. If I recall correctly if went from 5w30 to 20w50, with a lot of overlap in temps. Something like 20w50 was good down to 30 degrees, while 10w40 was good well into the negatives. 10w40 is the default oil because if covers the range of tems that most people ride in. I run 10w40 spring and fall, 20w50 in the summer. Probably not needed, but it works for me.

[SqDancerLynn1]

The Yoshimura GS1000 race bike used straight 30w Castrol R (bean oil)
so yes 10/40 should be fine