Help me decide what to do first...

[earlfor]

1. I want to add a better ground to my r/r. Whats the best configuration? Should I just make a lead between the housing and the negitive battery terminal? I don't want to fry that thing.

__________ Normally, the negative wire/ground on your battery will be connected to a bolt on top of the transmission. Make sure that bolt and connector is clean and tight. The black lead from the R/R is the 12 volt negative output. Connect that black wire directly to the battery negative terminal. No addition ground wire is needed.__________




2.does it say anything that when warm, if I apply the choke the RPM's go way up? Shouldn't the bike die if I choke it while warm?

_____________ That says you are running lean. If you are rich and add choke, rpm will go down. If you are lean, rpm will increase.

Earl

[lhanscom]

Jethro, just a thought on the starting issue, unlike southern florida we have temps that drop down pretty cool, and if the bike isn't starting super easy it may just be the temp. The colder it gets the harder engines start. Also be aware that if you tune the bike to run perfect when it's 35, next summer she'll be a dog.

I was having some trouble starting recently and found the problem to be low voltage to the coils, I just wired up a relay and she starts beautifully now, but still takes a couple cranks to start on days like today (32 this morning).

[KEITH KRAUSE]

Yes, you can run a ground from the R/R body to the battery negative terminal.
It also sounds like you're over choking the bike when cold starting. Do you really need full choke? What happens if you try just 1/2 choke or 1/3?
Try the acceleration test and see what applying the choke does to it. Do this in top gear, accelerating at full throttle from 60 mph.
Also try accelerating in top gear from 60 mph, roll the throttle open and accelerate. As it starts to accelerate, back off the throttle a little and see if the bike actually pulls harder when you back off a little.
There are other tests you can do to help figure out what the top end problem is. Electrical tape and baggies can be used to partially cover your pods. If this helps your acceleration, you're running lean. If taking the pods off helps acceleration, you're running rich.
Since you aquired the bike in this condition, it could be a lot of things.
It would be real nice to know your stock jetting and what jetting you have now. You may have to start with the basics such as an electrical system check, followed by checking everything fuel flow related and jetting related. Which isn't that difficult. Just takes some time.

[Jethro]

I just wired up a relay and she starts beautifully now,

Can you explain that? I'll have to test my electrical system.

Do you really need full choke? What happens if you try just 1/2 choke or 1/3?

Always the same, as long as there is some choke (1/2 or 1/3)- fires up the instant I touch the starter button, but after about 1 second it dies. Then, no matter where the choke is, I have to crank about 5 to 10 seconds and she'll slowly come to a start.

Still haven't been able to get out on the road to do the choke while accelerating test, but I can tell you that if I accelerate in top gear from 60 and then back off the throttle a little, I don't get any more pull.

[lhanscom]

I just wired up a relay and she starts beautifully now,

Can you explain that? I'll have to test my electrical system.

I took a spare starter relay I had kicking around, and ran a wire from the battery thru a inline fues to the relay. Then another wire from the relay to the coils. Then I took the wire that was going to the coils and ran that back to the switch on the relay. I went from horrible voltage at the coils, somewhere around 7-8v to a full 12.5. Starts better, and I think it has better response down low, but that's pretty subjective.

[snowbeard]

sorry to drift this, but I read the choke test part and tried it last night when my "intake leak" started again (can't find it with spray).

it was running at an apparent 2500 rpm at idle and when I pulled the choke it rose to 4000+? would this still point to an intake leak? I say apparent because it doesn't have the power that 2500 rpm should, and I get bogged when I try to start from it, but once the clutch is engaged and the rpm can't go artificially high it pulls great from 3000.

I'm pretty set on pulling the intake boots and replacing the orings this winter, but I want to keep finding the clues that tell me that's right! thanks!

[KEITH KRAUSE]

sorry to drift this, but I read the choke test part and tried it last night when my "intake leak" started again (can't find it with spray).

it was running at an apparent 2500 rpm at idle and when I pulled the choke it rose to 4000+? would this still point to an intake leak? I say apparent because it doesn't have the power that 2500 rpm should, and I get bogged when I try to start from it, but once the clutch is engaged and the rpm can't go artificially high it pulls great from 3000.

I'm pretty set on pulling the intake boots and replacing the orings this winter, but I want to keep finding the clues that tell me that's right! thanks!

Is the motor completely warmed up when it does this, or is this at cold start up?

[snowbeard]

that's when I've just gotten off the highway for ten+ miles at ~70mph, fully warmed up and starting to run too high, which I've currently been blaming on an intake leak...

[KEITH KRAUSE]

snowbeard, I'd say your test indicates an intake leak.
Adding some more fuel to a lean mixture will give the engine what it wants and the high rpm's will go even higher. When your engine is hot and the mixture is correct, adding the choke at closed or nearly closed throttle should make the engine run badly or stall.
Sometimes a slide can stick or a throttle plate can stick, but usually when you have an Ok idle when warming up but it increases a lot once completely warmed up, you have an intake leak.

[KEITH KRAUSE]

Jethro, here's what may be happening with your start up problem.
Dirty pilot circuit or the pilot circuit is jetted too lean. Let me explain.
When you give it ANY amount of choke, the bike jumps to life and immediately stalls. It's acting just like you gave the carbs a shot of starter fluid. This tells me the choke is supplying fuel but the pilot circuit isn't supplying enough.
At cold start up, the choke is meant to assist the pilot circuit. The choke starts the engine but the pilot circuit keeps the engine idling.
Then you say that 5-10 seconds of cranking/choking will slowly get the engine going.
As the engine cranks, even 5-10 seconds, you're building some heat. This heat will create a richer condition. This will help combustion. This heat will help a lean/dirty pilot circuit to allow the engine to start SLOWLY. The pilot circuit is not supplying enough fuel so your cold starts are difficult. Your pilot circuit will also not be supplying enough fuel when the engine is warmed up. This lean condition when warmed up, is not noticable to some people. They think the engine feels fine. Others can feel surging and/or hesitation.
As for the choke test at wider throttle positions, it's just an idea. When the throttle is opened wider, the choke circuit is only adding a proportionally small amount of fuel. On an engine running correctly, you probably wouldn't feel anything or maybe a bump. With an excessively lean or rich mixture, you may feel it. This would help you determine your mixture.
I saw on another topic you said the bike can go 130 but it takes longer than it should. This topic says you have trouble hitting 100 and it takes too long. This topic made it sound worse (to me) and I didn't know the bike would go 130. Maybe I didn't read things right? This changes my thinking a little. You obviously have a problem but it could be so many things. Carbs/fuel flow/air flow, timing advancer(?), valve clearances...
As I said above, I AT LEAST think the carbs are dirty. I still question the re-jetting and would like some present jetting info to compare to stock jetting. Poor main jet and needle settings, alone or in combination, can cause poor acceleration as you describe. How about marking your throttle housing and throttle grip and doing some true jet needle and main jet tests? For each test, run the bike a mile or so, chop the throttle and get reads. Test the needle at 1/3 to 1/2 throttle and the main wide open. I can test like this where I live. Don't get hurt because of something I suggest.
New plugs are best to use. The ground electrode can even tell you the health of your electrical system, including advance. On a new plug, the ground electrode will initially show a "rainbow" coloration. How far out the colors reach and what the colors are tells you how your electrical system is working. It's been a while since I read up on it, so I don't remember enough to give you solid advice. Look up sparkplug reading and you'll eventually come across this info.
Let me know how things go.

[Jethro]

Well, it's funny you made this nice long post at this point, because just last night I went through the carbs. Here is what I found out:

1. The float heights were out. Not by much, but they were too high, meaning the fuel would have been cut off early- might be part of the problem.

2. The mixture screws were at about 4 turns out- I have reset them at 2 1/2- will have to see if that helps.

3. The fuel line was 1/4". Probably a big problem. I changed it to 5/16".

4. The jetting is as follows- Mains, 138. Pilots, 40. The other one (not sure what they are called, my manual doesn't show them- they are facing rearward on the air filter flange?) are 180. Don't know what that tells me, but thats what they are.

5. The float needle jet o-rings on the two center carbs were shot. There was lots of gum, gook, oxidation on the brass housing surrounding the float needle jets. I assume the bad o-rings were letting fuel past even when the floats were up. Replaced them.

6. The clutch cable was rubbing massively on one of the throttle linkages! So badly that it wore through the aluminum quite a bit! This could be the problem as it may have held one of the throttle linkages from opening fully.


I am going to take the petcock out and make sure it is giving full flow. After it's all back together, I need to resynch this morning and I'll tell you how I made out!

[KEITH KRAUSE]

Adjusting the float level correctly WILL HELP with the starting and hi-speed trouble.
The correct fuel line size is definitely important and needed to avoid hi-speed fuel starvation.
I'm not sure about the main, pilot and air jet sizes, it depends on what sizes the stock jets were. But if they're a part of a jet kit, you know they are "in the ballpark" and would not cause a severe jetting problem.
The jet needle must be raised also for pipe/pod mod's. You spend the most time riding on the needle circuit. What do you think is going on there?
The other things you found could help too. I assume you went ahead and cleaned all the circuits? I know you may not have the time, but the valve clearances need checking and also the ignition timing, before doing an accurate carb synch.
PS: do you still have the two floatbowl vent lines on? With pods, they should be removed for better floatbowl venting, which allows the jets to draw fuel much easier. Poor venting is most noticable at cruising speeds and up.

[Jethro]

Well the carbs are synched (don't have the time to do the valves and I'm gonna have to learn about the electrics) and I went for a spin. Now i think I may be going crazy and it's all in my head. The bike definitely runs smoother, and might have more power all across the board. It is still hard to find enough road to get to 100, a problem I don't think I ever had with my 81, but then again, that has the 85 speedo, and I might just not know how fast my 80-100 speeds should be. 80 to 100 roll on speed might be like 12-15 seconds. It definitely pulls though, and pretty hard. I still seem to have the starting trouble, it's a chore getting the bike started. I tried the choke test at WOT- no change in performance. I find that at idle, when I choke the bike, the rpms go up at first, then the bike starts coughing until it dies. Takes about 15-20 seconds.

So it might all be in my head! The bike is great- no, perfect- between 10-75 mph. Off the line the throttle response is a little slow, unless I really gas it off the line. I'm not ruling out the clutch, I still think that might be a problem.

Anyway, my carbs are clean, the bike runs smooth, and I shouldn't complain about the top speed. It's not a Busa after all!

[KEITH KRAUSE]

Well, if you're happy enough with it that's all that matters.
I've never actually timed my bike, but I'm sure rolling on I can get from 80 to 100 in about 5 seconds? Somethings wrong or an accumulation of things. Maybe someday you'll do some maintenance and find the problem disappears.
I have another idea to add to the list of possibilities. Any jet kit for CV carbs will include instructions and a drill bit to increase the size of the vacuum orifice to the diaphragm assembly. This is to increase throttle response. I wonder if this was done to your carbs? If it wasn't, seems like the compromised vacuum would create quite a lag during acceleration. The compromised vacuum may even not be enough to FULLY open the throttle valves. The vacuum may "catch up" eventually but I've never tested a bike with pods, CV's and no vacuum mod' to know what happens.
I'm sure of the throttle response/ acceleration lag but not so sure about the throttle valves not fully opening.
As for the hard cold starting, if the jet kit gave you a larger choice of pilot jets, try that. You need a richer mixture.

[Joe Nardy]

Jethro,

Just as a gauge, I recently ran my '83 1100E pretty hard carrying a tank bag, soft saddlebags, and my wife as a passenger and I hit an indicated 100mph as I hit fourth gear revving close to redline. Total time from a rolling start, probably 10-12 seconds.

Joe