Does anyone use and recommend a particular oil additive

[earlfor]

Oh, I believe you when you say your bike leaked with synthetic. The point I was trying to make is that if the seals and gaskets are as they should be, the bike is NOT going to leak. Your bike needed maintenance to start with. The synthetic oil only removed the sludge and gum deposits that were contaminating your oil supply and blocking worn seals. I would consider developing a leak after using synthetic a favor. Its an early warning that not all is well. It probably saved you MAJOR work down the line.

Earl

Trust me when I tell you that the synthetic "hastened" my need to perform maintenence.
Not LOL. I have a lot of unexpected work ahead of me now
Patrick

[redliner1973]

Earl, you are exactly right. while the PAO's in 'true' synthetic oils are known to shrink seals, manufacturers counter this ( and have been for years) by adding ester-based base oils to the synthetic to 'even it out'. synthetics will clean the sludge off of seals, not because of better detergents, but because of the PAO base itself. BTW, if your interested, there are only a handful of 'true' (PAO or Ester-based) synthetics among brands. Mobile One, Amsoil, Redline, Motul are a few examples. Most other off the shelf synthetics, such as Castrol, Pennzoil, havoline, Quaker state, Valvoline are merely hydrocracked type lll mineral based oils. They are allowed to advertise in the USA as synthetics only by actions of a lawsuit against the SAE by Castrol. Hence if you pick up a bottle of Castrol Syntec, it will say on the back "not for sale outside North America". European/Japanese specs will not authorise labeling type lll hydrocracked oils as '100% full synthetic'.

[earlfor]

Thanks for the info Tim. One of the main reasons I use Mobil 1 is for its cleaning abilities. :-)

Earl

quote="propflux01"]Earl, you are exactly right. while the PAO's in 'true' synthetic oils are known to shrink seals, manufacturers counter this ( and have been for years) by adding ester-based base oils to the synthetic to 'even it out'. synthetics will clean the sludge off of seals, not because of better detergents, but because of the PAO base itself. BTW, if your interested, there are only a handful of 'true' (PAO or Ester-based) synthetics among brands. Mobile One, Amsoil, Redline, Motul are a few examples. Most other off the shelf synthetics, such as Castrol, Pennzoil, havoline, Quaker state, Valvoline are merely hydrocracked type lll mineral based oils. They are allowed to advertise in the USA as synthetics only by actions of a lawsuit against the SAE by Castrol. Hence if you pick up a bottle of Castrol Syntec, it will say on the back "not for sale outside North America". European/Japanese specs will not authorise labeling type lll hydrocracked oils as '100% full synthetic'.[/quote]

[Anonymous]

The explanation I was given for using only motorcycle specific oils was something about the molecules being "linked" to form long "strings" which don't breakdown as quickly as automotive oil and do a much better job protecting between the transmission gear teeth. The motorcycle oil also may have additives which last longer to keep the acids "ph" from working when the bike is in storage not being used.
I have also had "instant" leaks with Mobil 1 in my car.
In my bikes I am using a semi-synthetic motorcycle oil, and so far no leak problems. Obviously if you're not sure about your oil quality the best thing to do is to change it more often.

[saaz]

Synthetics will generally keep the inside of the engine far cleaner. If the seals are dodgy to start with, they may leak. A bike engine in good condition should not leak due to synthetic oil.

My car had this proble. High mileage. Used synthetic ones, it cleaned it out so much the rear seal started leaking. A few oil changes later with GSt2 20W50, it has gunked up enough again not to leak. Makes you wonder how much other sludge buildup is going on as well..can't be a good thing!

[crayonjota]

You boys sure get excited about your oils.. Anyway, for sure everyone agrees on the point here, do not use any addatives in your bike. Change your oil and filter regularly, and it would seem the safest bet is to use the stuff that you put in last time that worked...

CJ

PS. If you worry about the sludge and other crap building up and wearing down in your little 10,000 rpm motor, dont. Sleep easy...

[Mr. Jiggles]

I've recently been using Mobil1 that is designed exclusively for bikes and it's roughly twice the price of its automotive counterpart. It's great stuff - no leaks and shifting is a noticable improvement over the dino oils. But it's roughly $40/oil change. Is anyone using the cheaper automotive Mobil1 in their GS?

Jeff

[earlfor]

I've been using Mobil 1 15w50 automotive in the 1150 for a couple years.
I had the engine apart to change head and base gaskets and barrel/stud "O" rings a couple weeks ago and the engine internals are clean as a pin. No detectable wear on anything. Compression is the same as its always been at 170 lbs (no change in 25k miles) It has never weeped or leaked a drop of oil. I would use the automotive Mobil 1 Jeff, and save a few bucks. Internally, I cant tell the engine from new. It also shifts slick as you could ask for.

Walmart has the Mobil 1 15w50, 5 quart jug for $20. I change oil and filter every 1500 miles. Oil filters, I buy from cyclerecycle crc2onlinecatalog.com and if you buy them 20 at a time, they cost about $2 each. :-)

Earl

I've recently been using Mobil1 that is designed exclusively for bikes and it's roughly twice the price of its automotive counterpart. It's great stuff - no leaks and shifting is a noticable improvement over the dino oils. But it's roughly $40/oil change. Is anyone using the cheaper automotive Mobil1 in their GS?

Jeff

[joeadams]

While we are on the subject. I parked my bike for winter a little while ago. The oil in the engine has about 2000 miles on it. Is it bettter to let it sit all winter or change the oil now?

[redliner1973]

Change it now.

[Poot]

yes, that will also guard against any possible seisure, although thats not likely in just 1 winter....

[earlfor]

Change the oil.

Earl

While we are on the subject. I parked my bike for winter a little while ago. The oil in the engine has about 2000 miles on it. Is it bettter to let it sit all winter or change the oil now?

[redliner1973]

The explanation I was given for using only motorcycle specific oils was something about the molecules being "linked" to form long "strings" which don't breakdown as quickly as automotive oil and do a much better job protecting between the transmission gear teeth. The motorcycle oil also may have additives which last longer to keep the acids "ph" from working when the bike is in storage not being used.
I have also had "instant" leaks with Mobil 1 in my car.
In my bikes I am using a semi-synthetic motorcycle oil, and so far no leak problems. Obviously if you're not sure about your oil quality the best thing to do is to change it more often.

That explanation is not correct. Long molecular 'strings' are preferred in any oil, MC specific or 'auto' oils. The longer the 'string' the more viscosity spread you will have. when cold, these strings 'curl up', making the oil a base product, such as 10w. apply some heat, and these strings 'uncurl' allowing the oil to be 'thicker' at 100C. this will explain the second number in multi-vis oils.
What your 'teller' was confused over was mineral vs synthetic. In Synthetic, long molecues are derived from mineral based olefins and chemically engineered (almost copied) to all be the same size/length. these oils almost always have a superior base stock when complete. They are either Ester-based, or more commonly, PAO (PolyAlphaOlefin) based. Oils of this nature are catorgorised as Group 4 or 5 type oils. Regular type 1 or 2 oil strings usually vary in size and length. the shorter ones will usually break down quicker than the longer ones, and vaporise and produce sludge.
Some 'over the counter synthetic oils are catagorised as group 3. this means basically that these mineral-based oils are hydrocracked, meaning the molecular 'strings' are broken down under pressure to an even length. since all teh strings are equal, it is considered (only in North America) synthetic. It still has, however, a mineral base stock. part of this was explained in my last post.
The main difference in MC vs 'auto' oils is the type of additives. when the SAE went to SJ oils, they removed a very good barrier protective additives called Zinc and phosphorus. It kills Catalytic Converters, so with all the computer controlled cars depending on all this working, they have slowly been reduced in each subsequent classification. First SJ, then SL, and even less in the new SM oils. If you look at MC specific oils, it will carry the SH or SG classification. While that will void warrenties in todays new cars, Bikes usually do not have such pollution controls to worry about. The good news is that Zinc's extinction has brought 2 other barrier additives to the 'auto' oils of today. Moly and Boron. Both of these offer excellent barrier protection, equal to superior to Zinc. and they do not bother C-converters. This is the reason why todays oils like Mobile One work well in bikes. I hope this clears some of the misconceptions about oils.

[joeadams]

I'll probably change it Thanksgiving weekend when I go home. Unfortunately I don't have anywhere to keep it here in Harrisburg so I opted to keep it in my Grandparents heated garage. I'll do it when I do my car.

After all this discussion I am considering putting some synthetic in there and seeing what happens. My prediction is that it will leak some. When I start the bike cold it blows some white smoke. I just assumed that since it wasn't warm and had to be choked that the white was simply unburnt fuel vapor. I read in another post that is is likely burning oil. It seemed as though it might have been using oil. I always had a hard time checking because the entire area around my house is slanted slightly so I'd check it then rotate the bike 180 degrees and average the two readings. Anyway, if it is burning oil on cold starts what would that addition of synthetic do? Burn more than normal? Also what is the best course of action if oil is burning? Just let it ride til it gets worse or some sort of rebuild? Probalby a lot of time/money/tools that I don't have. Sorry, I'm a stupid rookie.

[earlfor]

I have doubts that changing to a synthetic oil would cause the bike to burn more oil. If its burning oil, about the only way oil can get into the combustion chambers is past the rings or valve guides. Synthetic oil is not going to change those clearances. Doing something about the oil consumption depends on how much youre talking about. My 1150 burns about a quart in 2500 miles. I consider that a normal rate.

The synthetic may clean out the engine and could cause some leaks. That depends on the condition of the gaskets and seals. If they are in good condition in the first place, the oil will not cause leaks. Leaks are an indication of an already existing condition.

A good indication of whether engine work is required is a spark plug check.
Oil leaves crusty deposits on the plugs. If the plugs look all crusted up and almost fouling, then some work may be a good idea. A compression check will also help to give an idea of the condition. I wouldnt be too eager to start fixing things until I had some indication things needed fixing. :-)

How does it run?

Earl

I'll probably change it Thanksgiving weekend when I go home. Unfortunately I don't have anywhere to keep it here in Harrisburg so I opted to keep it in my Grandparents heated garage. I'll do it when I do my car.

After all this discussion I am considering putting some synthetic in there and seeing what happens. My prediction is that it will leak some. When I start the bike cold it blows some white smoke. I just assumed that since it wasn't warm and had to be choked that the white was simply unburnt fuel vapor. I read in another post that is is likely burning oil. It seemed as though it might have been using oil. I always had a hard time checking because the entire area around my house is slanted slightly so I'd check it then rotate the bike 180 degrees and average the two readings. Anyway, if it is burning oil on cold starts what would that addition of synthetic do? Burn more than normal? Also what is the best course of action if oil is burning? Just let it ride til it gets worse or some sort of rebuild? Probalby a lot of time/money/tools that I don't have. Sorry, I'm a stupid rookie.