Is putting Mobil 1 in 1980 GS1100E with 89,500 miles ok?

[Jethro]

the actual fact is that we all use what we want

That's the truth. If it works, keep doin' it!

[Anonymous]

Synthetic Oil

About 2 years ago I read an article in a Consumer Reports-type of magazine (can't remember which) about synthetic vs. regular oil. The test used a fleet of New York City cabs as guinea pigs. Both types of oils were used in cabs whose oil was changed at 3000, 6000, and 10000 mi intervals. I believe that the engines were torn down at 100K miles (or something like that), and surprisingly the only difference in the condition of the engines was attributed to the frequency of oil changes and not the type of oil used. The 3k and 6K engines were nearly identical in condition, but the 10k engines showed significantly more wear. Bottom line: change the oil frequently, and as long as you use the right viscocity of decent quality of oil you shouldn't have a problem.

[Anonymous]

Oh, but the truth is though, that dyno oils are well broken down long before the specified change duration -- like within the first 1000 miles or so (depending on the service), but you can't sell that, nor do you need to 8O It's rare to have an engine -- in your possesion -- long enough for you to reap the reward of your labors. You'll trade it in and the next bloke will be dealing with it. So, 3000 miles is recommended even though it's probably long past time to change it.

Dirt is one thing -- you've got to change oil and filters regularly, but lubrication properties are another. Synthetics typically do not break down like dyno oils. It's this breakdown that causes sludge to form, which is the worst kind of dirt your engine deals with -- apart from dust particles inhales by the carb. They also don't attach (bond to) a lot of the other chemicals (from the air and gas and combustion) that cause premature oil degradation. So, synthetics will prolong the life of the engine -- when used from the get-go.

Engine oil serves two main purposes: to keep metal parts seperated by a film tougher than the force applied to them (viscosity) and to provide a resultant cooling (friction reduction). The fact that synthetics do not so easily break down and that they provide superior viscosity retention, they do not allow for the increased temperature increases that can play such a big role in the oils failure. In essence synthetic oils prolong their own life -- in a way.

The problem with synthetics is: Once an engine has been "gummed up" so to speak, by petroleum based oils, the only thing synthetics will do is clean it up inside -- so much so -- that the seals that used to be gummed up (and are subsequently hardened) with the what-nots left from dyno oils will begin to leak eventually. I don't think this is of much debate. I used to deal in AmsOil and they were well on the cutting edge of this research then for automotive use. They had proven research that synthetic oil can clean an engine, but also (as a result) recommended users NOT to use the product on older engines for that very reason. They sold a para-synthetic oil for older vehicles.

I'm not a 100% user of synthetics either, but will use it if I built the motor and want it to last. One thing I can say... when, and if, I ever take a motor apart that has run on synthetics -- the engine is pristene inside.

That's my 2 dollars and fifty cents worth...

Roger

[earlfor]

I used full synthetic once many years ago. Being young and not knowing any better, I was changing the oil in my Dodge and reasoned that if adding a quart of slick 50 to my car was good, then putting only slick 50 into my bike (Honda) would be wonderful and nothing would ever wear at all or at least not for the first million miles. :-) Well, it didnt fall over in the driveway, because it wouldnt move. Redline the tach and pop the clutch in 1st and the bike wouldnt roll 1/4" at full throttle with the clutch fully engaged. :-)

Earl

[quote="SLOWPOKE"

I noticed that in a driveway drop 8O synthetic oil landed 50 percent softer than dyno oil. The problem was that it didnt make my butt hurt any less This is an un desputable fact [/quote]

[Anonymous]

That should say a lot for what Slick 50 could do to combat wear and tear on a engine (as long as it doesn't have a wet clutch). I've personally never used it.

Were you able to just change out the teflon impregnated oil, or did you have change the clutch discs too?

Roger

[Don Lobacz]

My 2 cents worth: The main advantage of synthetic oil is low temperature fluidity (remember, 20 below in the morning - it's coming!). For most of us, this is not a reason to use it in a motorcycle. The other advantages just make a GS motor scoff - it's tough enough to run on coagulated tar and still kick butt.

[saaz]

Post on oil are sure to cause contoversy.

Synthetics are better at high temp operations (eg jet engines) but this does not necessarily make them better in normal automotive applications. As with "normal" oils, there are average and better quality synthetics. Not all synthetics allow for extended drain periods, so no advantage there. Some are (have all the extra additives) so perhaps may be ok for high mileage use.

But then, normal oil seems to work fine with people doing high milage (taxis, trucks etc).

ironically, people doing shorther trips, not getting to operating temp much etc will benefit more from these better oils. As the old air cooled GS runs a bit hot, running a better oil or chnaging more often is good insurance.

The stories of leaks with synthetics are partly true. Older synthetics did do this, but modern ones have additives for seals etc. Synthetics are higher in their cleansing action (detergent) so may tend to keep the insides of an engine clean, and due to high temp suitability, freer of varnish. Older engines may be using this buildup to sela some gaskets...when cleaned up they might leak...

Use a reasonable oil, change it when you should, use a better oil if you ride in hot weather or give it ahard time, this oil may be normal, semi-synthetic or synthetic.

[Anonymous]

thank you for all the replies...

I guess the verdict is out: no one knows for sure whether putting syn oil is a good idea or not. I guess I'll just stick to putting dyn oil in. It worked for my uncle as he put 89,500 miles on this 1980 GS1100E. I plan on putting another 89,000 miles on it.

Thanks for all your inputs!

Rudi
San Antonio, TX
1980 GS1100E
89,500 miles

[Anonymous]

In my opinion this subject of motor oil---even if it seems to be popping up about once a month is a very worty way to spend our time. I rank it high along with chain lubes(except for Nick) and then comes tuning your carbs for mileage and proper spark color. The repairs and breakdown will always be important to me because even though japanese motorcycles dont vibrate, leak oil or break down; we must be prepared for such rare occurances.

[Anonymous]

Slowpoke...need your advice

I noticed you mentioned "tuning your carbs". My bike has been sitting around, with gas in the tank, for about 1.5 years. Friends of mine have said there probably is "gunk" in the carbs by now and I should have them cleaned.

Question: Do those carb cleaners I find at Autozone work well? Or is really cleaning the carbs something I'm going to have to take to a mechanic?

Rudi

[Anonymous]

Re: Slowpoke...need your advice

I noticed you mentioned "tuning your carbs". My bike has been sitting around, with gas in the tank, for about 1.5 years. Friends of mine have said there probably is "gunk" in the carbs by now and I should have them cleaned.

Question: Do those carb cleaners I find at Autozone work well? Or is really cleaning the carbs something I'm going to have to take to a mechanic?

Rudi

if our bike is running well then you are probably ok( (i asume that you are riding it now)--What some of us usually do on any bike that we have just purchased used is to run some gas treatment through a few tanks of gas and if there is any stuff hiding in the carbsit probably will clean it out.
if it aint broke dont fix it((wish I could follow that rule))
And again I asumed you have been ridint the bike recently..

[Anonymous]

I guess the verdict is out: no one knows for sure whether putting syn oil is a good idea or not.

Rudi,

No, I think the verdict is that you shouldn't use it on a bike with 89,000 miles -- unless it has seen 89,000 miles on synthetic already. Synthetic oil is way too expensive to let drip all over the ground and may not do any good on an older bike. I'd just use a good brand of petro-based oil and change it often. You can change oil about 5 to 1 for the cost of one synthetic change.

Regarding "extended oil changes" -- oil companies shouldn't offer these because even if the oil can withstand extended change durations -- the DIRT IN IT will still be there causing damage. When I sold AmsOil I bought (and still have) a very fine filtration system that they swore would keep my oil so clean that I'd like NEVER need to change my oil (well.... maybe not never, but you get the point). This filter would look funny strapped to a motorcycle, so we probably won't ever get something that good for our bikes. But the point is that the synthetic oil -- if kept clean -- would last a very, very long time. I did go over 30,000 miles before I swapped the old 6 cylinder engine for a V8 (in the panel I'm sitting on). I sold that engine and the buyer was way impressed by the interior condition of the engine.

Newer blends of synthetic oils are adding seal conditioners to eliminate leakage, which is a known issue, but this assumes that the seals are good enough to condition. Most seal are not after any period of time running dry friction, which happens with sludge build-up behind the seal. Gaskets are a different issue. Gaskets tend to shrink and need to be re-tightened periodically, but if that isn't done the sludge tends to seal the voids that form. Wash that away and you'll get leaks, but you can often just sinch up the screws/bolts to make them stop.

It is also true that synthetics were designed for high temp applications, but air-cooled motorcycles do fall under that category. Cylinder walls can get very hot when the bike is moving slow or not at all, so the benefits of synthetics are seen most in this area. Also, because the leading cause of oil breakdown with petroleum based oils is heat -- using them in high-temp applications will shorten their life-span. Often, as I mentioned in my other "big" post, this time period in less time than the "prescribed" 3000 mile interval (but they won't/can't tell you that).

Remember, it's all marketing. We're sold a "bill of goods" everyday. One oil brand may claim something over another -- as with all these "old car oils" that are coming on the market these days. The simple fact is that every situation determines the need. Chances are "great" that these new oils (for instance) are nothing more than repackaging of what they've sold all along, or has something like STP in to thicken it up. I find it odd that as soon as one brand came out with it, the others followed very closely behind. Oh yeah, like that's a coincidence? It's forums like this that keep that kind marketing hype in check.

Cya,

Roger Moore

[Anonymous]

Thanks!

SLOWPOKE: Actually, I am not riding the bike. It was given to me by my uncle..and was sitting around for a year and a half. There WAS gas in the tank during that time, too. So does that mean there is gunk in the carbs?


ROGER MOORE: Thank you for the in-depth response. I agree...I think I'll simply stick to dyn oil. I will DEFINITELY put synth oil in my next bike (which will be new...probably a Goldwing).


Rudi

[Anonymous]

Re: Thanks!

SLOWPOKE: Actually, I am not riding the bike. It was given to me by my uncle..and was sitting around for a year and a half. There WAS gas in the tank during that time, too. So does that mean there is gunk in the carbs?


ROGER MOORE: Thank you for the in-depth response. I agree...I think I'll simply stick to dyn oil. I will DEFINITELY put synth oil in my next bike (which will be new...probably a Goldwing).


Rudi

then you have not started it yet --i presume--dont be so cheap with your information--a hundred guys will chip in and many are quite good with bikes that have been laying around with gas in them

[Anonymous]

I think we'd all agree that chances are pretty good the carbs are gummed up. There are a lot of post of late regarding carbs and rebuilding them. One I recall described some product that would clean them on the bike, but personally I find there are never any "true" shortcuts. All of them tend to be cut-shorts instead. Cut short of doing what they say they do. The gas for sure is bad by now, and any in the carbs will need to be flushed out. Whether it turned to gel or not... You'll only know once you try to run the bike again.

Roger