Setting floats per manual

[arveejay]

I've been buying factory manuals for my bikes, bathroom reading for the winter. When I have set float level in the past I have always let the float sit on the needle and make the adjustments, while doing my bathroom reading this morning I seen that the book says just let it touch the needle and adjust it from there. This reading will differ from letting the full weight rest on the needles, but my question is will it matter that much? If so I need to readjust all my float settings on all my bikes. Will adjusting them with full weight on the needles make it richer or leaner that it should be? Am I the only one that has doing this wrong?

[KEITH KRAUSE]

I've always done it the way you did.
I've never had a problem due to a high fuel level.
In my opinion, when the floats are operating the float tab will contact and push the spring in a little just as the valve is sealing. The amount the spring pushes in first is about the same as what you're seeing by letting the float rest on the spring. When the fuel level has topped after stopping the motor, I think the spring is compressed that same amount to make the valve seal.
Because of the adjustment range, usually about .08", if you set them right in the middle of that range, you have a margin for error. The valve spring would have to be weak to defeat this method of setting.
The spring should have tension along it's entire travel. If you can pull the pin out any further than the spring pushes it, it needs replacing in my opinion. I don't know how sensitive the springs are, but I never push a spring tip more than about 1/2 way in when checking. It's just the first 1/2 of its travel that needs checking.

[arveejay]

I was hoping someone would say that. Thanks.

[Jethro]

I always set the floats like your manual says, so that the measurement is to just barely touching the needle valves. However, if you have ever taken the floats right out, you'll notice they barely weigh anything. I can't imagine the springs compressing much just by the weight of the floats, certainly not more than the .08" tolerance. As long as you set to the middle of the tolerance, you should be all set.

[KEITH KRAUSE]

I was hoping someone would say that. Thanks.

I have to say I'm not 100% positive we're doing it the correct way, but I gave it some thought many years ago and decided to do it the way I do. I have a few more thoughts about it.
As far as I remember, all the float valve springs compress at least a little with the float weighing on them. The genuine Suzuki valves when new, generally compress very little. The aftermarket valves in rebuild kits generally compress more and have more variations of spring strength. Some are downright soft.
I don't think the valve can completely seal, simply by making contact. That's why I don't think the measurement should be taken at that point. At least a slight pressure has to be applied to make the valve completely seal. This slight pressure will compress the spring a little.
I've read what the manual says too. And even though they are working with new valves in their photos, even new valves have a little sag. They can't completely seal until there's been some pressure applied to them and this pressure will compress the spring a little. That means the manuals would have to illustrate and instruct you to use your finger tip to be sure no weight is pressing down the spring. Since there's no mention or photos of doing this, and the fact that the springs do sag at least a little, I don't see how the measurement can be done.
If I/we have been doing it wrong all this time, it would mean we have been setting the fuel level too low. Every bike I've worked on, I've set the floats the same way. I've never had a lean problem that couldn't be fixed by jet changes. If I was setting the fuel levels too low, changing the jets would never cure the leanness. Every bike I've tuned would show fuel starvation at some point. It's never happened.

[arveejay]

Thanks again Keith, Maybe if I get bored I might have a look but I at least feel that it isn't critical that I adjust them. When I pull them for a spruce up in the spring I'll have a look. I'm so happy with the way they run I really didn't like the idea of changing them.

[KEITH KRAUSE]

I'm so happy with the way they run I really didn't like the idea of changing them.

That's what I mean. My results have always been the same too.
If the way we have been adjusting them is wrong, there would have to be fuel starvation/lean mixture problems.
For all the reasons I said before, I'll continue to adjust them this way.

[arveejay]

I never thought about the needles having weak springs. I always chuck the needle in a drill, put some jewelers polish on a grease rag and polish it up real clean and smooth. I even foung that on dirty valves that you can put a q-tip in a drill and use jewelers polish and clean that up like new. But I've never given any thought to the springs getting weak. Now I have this desire to replace all of them and be done with it. So, any other source for the needles. I'm very happy with bike bandit and their service, the prices have even come down, but if I can save a buck, why not.

[arveejay]

I just went to BB and you have to buy the needle and the valve together at $31.00 a pop. Somebody has to just have the needle.

[whodatpat]

Carb rebuild kits always have the nedle and spring set. A bit less than the 33 quoted when you buy on ebay, and you get the seals and gaskets to boot. I believe that as dificult as it is to pull the carbs and airbox out and put it all back, I am not going to have to do it again because I was too cheap to replace a 20 year old dohicky.

Also, I am glad to hear that I am not the only one who thinks mechanics manuals make great bathroom reading.
Patrick

[KEITH KRAUSE]

I never thought about the needles having weak springs. I always chuck the needle in a drill, put some jewelers polish on a grease rag and polish it up real clean and smooth. I even foung that on dirty valves that you can put a q-tip in a drill and use jewelers polish and clean that up like new.

I've never heard of polishing a float needle valve. I would also never put a valve in a drill chuck. 8O
All the float valves need is a quick wipe.

[KEITH KRAUSE]

I just went to BB and you have to buy the needle and the valve together at $31.00 a pop. Somebody has to just have the needle.

A float valve and its seat are sold as a set. These are precision parts.
They both wear into each other over time and should always be kept together. If a valve becomes worn, you replace it with a new set. Never mix valves and seats.
Genuine Suzuki valves are expensive, but the best quality. Many rebuild kits include a new valve and seat, along with various other parts, for less.
www.partsnmore.com sells a cheaper kit. I don't know about your model, but a kit for a GS1000 is around $12. It's a small kit, including the bowl and top cover gaskets, 1 o-ring, and a float valve and seat set.
When you compare the Suzuki valve to the cheaper valve, you can see a quality difference. But the cheaper valves seem to work fine.

[arveejay]

I just went to BB and you have to buy the needle and the valve together at $31.00 a pop. Somebody has to just have the needle.

A float valve and its seat are sold as a set. These are precision parts.
They both wear into each other over time and should always be kept together. If a valve becomes worn, you replace it with a new set. Never mix valves and seats.
Genuine Suzuki valves are expensive, but the best quality. Many rebuild kits include a new valve and seat, along with various other parts, for less.
www.partsnmore.com sells a cheaper kit. I don't know about your model, but a kit for a GS1000 is around $12. It's a small kit, including the bowl and top cover gaskets, 1 o-ring, and a float valve and seat set.
When you compare the Suzuki valve to the cheaper valve, you can see a quality difference. But the cheaper valves seem to work fine.

I've also never kept them seperate, guess I've been lucky. When I strip them down I put all small pieces to soak and clean and then reassemble. I Always have to set the floats but haven't had a leak because wrong needle in seat. But then when they are polished they always seat fine. I guess if I kept them segregated I may not have to adjust the floats but I've never did this. Guess I'm learning more all the time.