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Horrible gas mileage/brick wall at 7,500rpm problem w/82 750

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    Horrible gas mileage/brick wall at 7,500rpm problem w/82 750

    I've just been pointed to this site from www.totalmotorcycle.com and am amazed at how knowledgeable everyone is here. You people really know your GS's! As such, I was hoping to get some help. Down the line the shoe will be on the other foot.

    I just bought my 82 GS 750 a few days ago for $1100, and it appears as if I should demand a partial refund on my money. It looks great, engine seems to run ok, and has new tires, but what was billed as "running great" is actually rust in the tank (which I didn't check), unbelieveably horrible gas mileage, and a dead spot so bad at 7,500rpm that the bike will absolutely not accelerate beyond it.

    A little background: The bike sat (as indicated by the tank) but for unknown duration. The PO claimed 2 months while he owned it. It starts and runs like its brand new, but requires a lot of choke to warm it up, and a little choke to keep it going. With zero choke it'll stay lit as long as you blip the throttle every five seconds. It pulls like a monster throughout the powerband with no dead spots or seeming over rich/over lean conditions at any throttle angles or RPM positions (save 7,500). It's a very smooth bike.

    The problems, broken down: The gas mileage is atrocious. I filled the tank yesterday, and 23 miles later it's almost down to halfway. I looked inside the (rusty) tank to check, and it's really that low. What's strange about this is the bike runs fine. Like I said, no high or low spots in the powerband. It starts easily, warms up acceptably when choked (and with the help of blipping the gas to keep it lit while warming up), and pulls very hard.

    The power is there, but I'm guessing it could be stronger still. It pulls like a monster throughout, seemingly hitting the meat of the torque band at 3,000 and roaring with authority up to 7,500 in any gear. That problem is that at 7,500 it just stops accelerating. It hints at this as you pass 7,000, but 500rpm later it's not going anywhere. Of course since this bike's torque peak is supposed to be at 8,450 or so, that's a little shy on the power side.

    The tank is a bit rusty, but the clear filter shows very little evidence of it getting into the system. This could still be contributing to the other two problems.

    One more thing: It's got a Kerker 4-1, what looks like a K+N cone stuck to the outside of the airbox, and I have no idea if it's been jetted for those two mods. I've no idea if the K+N is clogged.

    So, anybody have any ideas on what's causing this combination of problems? To tell the truth I could care less about it not pulling past 7,500rpm since it's already horrifically fast as is, but the gas mileage is really really bad. Coming off my GZ 250 which got 72mpg a few tanks, this 10-15mpg is insane.

    #2
    Have you read the plugs? It could be running rich which would be exascerbated (sp?) at higher rpm's. Does your exhaust run clean or is it smokey? Does it smell of gas? It sounds like you have some kind of funky airbox setup, and these bikes are very picky about the air they breathe. Also, rust in the tank could be starving your fuel at times of high fuel demand (ie. high rpms). Your external fuel filter could look clean, but there is generally a screen inside the tank for the stock petcock- if it stll has one. Even an aftermarket petcock has a screen filter that could be clogged with rust, or the valve itself could have rust gunk in it. Beyond all this, you could have a problem with the ignition system. Weak coils could be hard to notice at the low/mid rpms, but will be very noticable at 7500 rpms.

    If it were my bike I'd do the following:
    1. Remove and rebuild the petcock
    2. Cream the tank
    3. Disassemble, clean and rebuild the carbs
    4. Do something about the air supply (either make back to stock or get individual pod filters and a jet kit.
    5. Synch your rebuilt carbs
    6. Go through the stator papers on this site in the "In The Garage" section.

    Welcome to the forum- keep us posted, we all are obsessed with our and others bikes and how they run.
    Currently bikeless
    '81 GS 1100EX - "Peace, by superior fire power."
    '06 FZ1000 - "What we are dealing with here, is a COMPLETE lack of respect for the law."

    I ride, therefore I am.... constantly buying new tires.

    "Tell me what kind of an accident you are going to have, and I will tell you which helmet to wear." - Harry Hurt

    Comment


      #3
      Also, check your coils as well.
      If they're putting out a weak spark you won't have efficient burn of the fuel.
      I replaced mine with a slightly used set of DYNA coils.


      Dm of mD

      Comment


        #4
        Also, check your coils as well.
        If they're putting out a weak spark you won't have efficient burn of the fuel.
        I replaced mine with a slightly used set of DYNA coils.
        Yeah! Like I said, go through the stator papers!! :twisted:
        The stator papers will evaulate the heath of all your electrical components.
        Currently bikeless
        '81 GS 1100EX - "Peace, by superior fire power."
        '06 FZ1000 - "What we are dealing with here, is a COMPLETE lack of respect for the law."

        I ride, therefore I am.... constantly buying new tires.

        "Tell me what kind of an accident you are going to have, and I will tell you which helmet to wear." - Harry Hurt

        Comment


          #5
          A single pod replacing the stock air filter housing is my prefered way of opening up a GS for freer breathing, the inability to rev out would suggest that it hasnt been re-jetted. You will not know until you have dismantled the carbs for cleaning,BTW GS's love clean carbs!!! You should Kreen the tank, clean the petcock and check the electrics, stator, rec/reg & coils at least just so as you know the general health of your bike.
          Once you have done this basic servicing/repairs you will then be in a position to assess why it is doing what it is doing. I would look very closely at jetting or carb boots.
          The reason I prefer a single pod over individual pods, a single pod retains the plenum behind the carbs, the GS series can be tempermental about individual pods, they seem to prefer keeping the plenum and the bit of restriction they cause, having said that several members have fitted four pods and re-jetted quickly and easily, and ended up with smoooth running bikes, several others have had a nightmare time of it and ended up going back to stock.
          I believe that a single pod is the best compromise.
          Dink

          Comment


            #6
            All of the above.

            Start with your tank, since you KNOW there is a considerable amount of rust there.

            Drain it and put in a handful of bolts and nuts........hint....count them FIRST, and count them again when you finish, to be sure they are ALL out.


            Shake the tank with the nuts/bolts inside for a couple of minutes, then turn it upside down and flush with water.

            You can dry it easily with a hair dryer, but DO NOT put the dryer into the tank. Use at least two feet of tubing, preferably more, and run the air through that. You need the distance to avoid ignition of the escaping vapours due to meeting a tiny spark in the dryer.
            Bertrand Russell: 'Men are born ignorant, not stupid. They are made stupid by education.'

            Comment


              #7
              Guys, thanks so much for the help so far. That's some great stuff to start with.

              I checked the plugs today. Here's what I found out: They were all hand tight (unusual for these bikes?), 3 of the 4 were newish Autolite 4163s and one was an older looking NGK that was so black on the connector stem that I couldn't read the number on it. The NGK also had a significantly larger gap than the others, which I closed up. None of them looked black or sooty or indicative of richness. They were all unworn and with a reddish tint to them. Comments?

              After I put them back in, tightening them down a bit tighter, I took it on the road and nothing had seemingly changed. It still nails a brick wall at 7,500, and I can almost visibly watch the gas guage go south.

              As far as the exhaust goes: It doesn't smell too bad. It smells a bit on the rich side (like a cold start) but it doesn't burn my eyes or anything when I stick my face in it. Rev it up really hard a couple of times in neutral and it'll blacken up a bit, but it's not like a big cloud coming out the back. It pops a slight amount sometimes on decel, but otherwise is free from weird noises.

              I ran it without the air filter to see if it got better and it got much worse. It wouldn't really handle full throttle at all.

              I'll definitely be "bolt sanding" it and Kreeming it up asap.

              One more tidbit that may help diagnosis: When I bought the bike a few days ago the battery was nearly dead. Since then I've topped off the electrolyte and run the bike a lot and it now starts every time at the press of a button (rather than the push of the motorcycle).

              Comment


                #8
                I wish you luck on finding out how to get past the brick wall. My 81 GS750 does the same thing, only at 5500-6000 rpms. My plugs looked good also, except #1 cylinder was much darker than the rest, but still didn't looked fouled. I replaced with new plugs, replaced the air filter, and same problem. My bike will idle without messing with the throttle.
                I am guessing you are going to have to dismantle the carbs and clean them thoroughly. I haven't done this yet - I have been putting it off because I am nervous about doing it. I will get er done before spring though. I bought a manual and recommend the same. I also bought a mercury synchronizer, although I don't think this is a synchronizer issue. I figured I would have to use it after taking the carbs apart and cleaning them. I bought a float bowl gasket kit and am getting the o-ring kit.
                As always, you need to throw some money at it.
                It is not the coils - the later GS's (the 81 and later bikes) have electronic ignition. Pull the cover on the right side of the motor and see for yourself.
                It is just two philips screws and the cover is easily removed and replaced.
                I recommend buying a new battery as the electrical recharging system sucks on this bike. This may be my problem as well. I just remembered that I need to do that..........

                Comment


                  #9
                  When I first purchased my 1150, it seemed to run and pull very well ( geez I wonder why after getting off a 400 8O) but to be my usual self I had to be sur so I entrusted it to a highly recommended mechanic ( he was and still is BTW ) he cleaned and synched the carbs for me did the valve clearences. He told me that he had had to stand there with jet drills to clean out my emulsion tubes they were clogged that solidly 8O , He must have been correct, it dang near killed me first time I hit a straight bit of road on my way home, it took off so fast I nearly got left behind. Since then the bike has always ran at 19km/l and I do mean always, this has only varied when something has been wrong, and the Tractor subtle way off telling me is to drop to 16km/l :? , as soon as I repair whatever it was it goes straight back to 19km/l.
                  My Katana however has entirely different drinking habits
                  Dink

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Thanks again for the advice. I'm still not sure what's going on as far as rich/lean since there are so many conflicting symptoms, but I got a lot more of one of them today, so hopefully that helps.

                    The bike died a half dozen times while I was trying to get it to work today. It died a couple times after lighting it off with the starter. I hadn't blipped the throttle enough to keep it lit (was trying to close garage while bike idled). After it shut off it took so much juice to start that I had to jump it from the car.

                    Then it died a couple more times soon afterward on the road. The first time it was because I'd done that giving it too much throttle while it was still relatively cold thing. I gave it maybe half throttle and when it hit about 4,500 it cut out immediately and I couldn't bump it as it coasted to a stop, no matter how much I twitched the throttle.

                    I let it sit a few seconds, cranked it, and it started right up. A few seconds later on the road it died again, this time due to nothing I'd done wrong. This isn't a gradual power loss or anything. It's like the flick of a switch.

                    I managed to light it up that time just before it came to a stop. I kept revving it to keep it alive, then all the sudden it quit in neutral. I push started it immediately and it lit back up.

                    A mile later it died again as I rolled onto the throttle, not letting me bump it as I coasted from 50mph. I pressed the button a few seconds later and it lit up, then rode it conservatively (not much gas, but keeping it above 3,500 revs) until it warmed up. After that it didn't die again.

                    I'm also starting to smell and see more unburned fuel coming from the exhaust. Richness? Eh?

                    The 7,500rpm brick wall and very poor gas mileage continue. I'm at 55 miles and the tank, once full, is almost empty, which of course sucks since this is worse mileage than my 3,000lb Volvo wagon gets with a very messed up air mass meter and 15psi of boost thrown into the equation.

                    Help!

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Isaac you obviously have more then one issue going on here, go through the checks and cleaning etc as suggested and then let us know your findings.
                      Dink

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Hey Isaac.
                        Like you said, you were amazed at how much the gang here knows.
                        Be a little more patient and listen to what they're telling you.

                        Go through the check lists you have been given before you ride any more. You could be making things worse instead of better by running the bike after each small victory.
                        These folks really do know these bikes inside out.
                        Listening will pay off big time in the longer run.

                        Comment

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