How long to start when dry?

[Anonymous]

I just finished putting my '82 GS450L back together after replacing the engine (the old mill had a bad bearing on the crank as near as I can tell and was leaving metal in the oil filter, but would start great). Everything went pretty smoothly (except for the $!$*%& metric measurements) - I used the same carbs that ran great previously as well as the exhaust. The engine turns over nicely with the starter. The problem, however, is that it simply won't start.

I switched the tank to prime (PRI) for about 15-20 seconds), put the choke on, and cranked without success. There's spark, but the plugs are dry. I repeated the above with the same result - no start and dry plugs.

I guess my questions are how long should I leave it on prime before trying to start it, and at what point do I dissassemble stuff looking for the problem?

Thanks!
Brad

[earlfor]

Re: How long to start when dry?

15 to 20 seconds is sufficient to fill the float bowls. Did you unscrew a float bowl drainplug to be sure there is fuel in the bowls? (the petcock may not be allowing fuel flow) If you pull the fuel line loose from the carb nipple and turn the petcock to prime, does fuel flow?
You DID remember to hook up the choke cable???? :-) :-)
Can we assume you did not change any adjustments on the carbs??
Are you using the original intake boots that worked fine before and were they left undisturbed on the engine?

Earl

I switched the tank to prime (PRI) for about 15-20 seconds), put the choke on, and cranked without success. There's spark, but the plugs are dry. I repeated the above with the same result - no start and dry plugs.

I guess my questions are how long should I leave it on prime before trying to start it, and at what point do I dissassemble stuff looking for the problem?

Thanks!
Brad

[Anonymous]

Re: How long to start when dry?

Thanks for the suggesttions - yes, the fuel flows freely from the petcock and the carb bowls are wet. I didn't do anything with the choke - on the 450, it's a lever right on the left side, attached directly to the carb. I didn't do anything to the carbs other than remove them from the old engine and put them on the new one and I am using the original intake boots (which I was *very* careful not to cut/rip/damage).

Thanks!
Brad

15 to 20 seconds is sufficient to fill the float bowls. Did you unscrew a float bowl drainplug to be sure there is fuel in the bowls? (the petcock may not be allowing fuel flow) If you pull the fuel line loose from the carb nipple and turn the petcock to prime, does fuel flow?
You DID remember to hook up the choke cable???? :-) :-)
Can we assume you did not change any adjustments on the carbs??
Are you using the original intake boots that worked fine before and were they left undisturbed on the engine?

Earl

[Anonymous]

sure that motor has compression?

[earlfor]

Re: How long to start when dry?

Hmmmm, did the carbs sit up long enough to have varnished between the time you removed them from the old engine until now. Were the float bowls drained when they were removed?
You say you have spark, so I assume you mean at the electrode on the plug when it is removed and grounded to the cylinder.
Have you visually confirmed that the choke mechanism is operating the choke plates or enricheners and not just ineffectually turning a fitting?
As a final check, I would remove the airbox and put about a 1 sec squirt of WD40 into the intake of each carb and try starting it. If it fires up or tries to run, then its highly likely a no fuel flow problem in the choke circuits. There is nothing wrong with the carbs on my 750, but if I were to try to start it without the choke/enrichener, it would not fire at all and the plugs would be dry.

If you try the WD40 to see if it will at least fire and by chance it backfires bowing flames out the carb intakes, keep cranking it to pull them into the cylinder. On a 1 sec shot of WD, it should not do that, but on that off 1 in a thousand chance, youll know what to do if need be. :-) Dont be looking into the carb intakes to see if you can tell if there is fuel being atomized while youre cranking it either. :-) :-) :-) Thought I would mention....heh heh

Earl

[quote="ChiefPilot"]Thanks for the suggesttions - yes, the fuel flows freely from the petcock and the carb bowls are wet. I didn't do anything with the choke - on the 450, it's a lever right on the left side, attached directly to the carb. I didn't do anything to the carbs other than remove them from the old engine and put them on the new one and I am using the original intake boots (which I was *very* careful not to cut/rip/damage).

Thanks!
Brad

[Anonymous]

Your in luck I have the exact answer to your question. I too have a 82 GS 450L and am in the process of fixing it up. I got it all put back together and put gas in it. It took a long time to get it to fire probably about 30 minutes. I would let it sit with gas for a while then retry. Thats what I did and it worked. I too was suprised how friggin long it took!

By the way its pretty hard to get the bike to start on WD-40 I have tried that many times on lots of machines. Use carb cleaner it works to start the engine way better than wd 40.

Unfortunatly I have a gas leak in because the carb seals are really old. I would really like it if you told me where I can get some parts for this thing. I need a carb rebuild kit to fix it up right. I got rags stuffed in front of the carbs to soak up the gas! I wish that petcock had a stupid off option like every other bike!

Good luck with your bike. Glad to see someone else has one too!

[Anonymous]

Yes - actually, that was my first thought. When it's in gear with the clutch out, the back wheel won't turn and thumb compression feels ok. I don't have a compression gauge that will fit, however, so I can't check the actual pressure.

Thanks,
Brad

sure that motor has compression?

[Anonymous]

Re: How long to start when dry?

The carbs were out for about a day and a half and I had run the old engine dry so I don't think varnishing is the problem. On the other hand, I have heard of aircraft carbs have varnish problems after just a few hours so that's something I will definately check.

The choke is actually moving the plates, and I've seen the spark myself so I think it's definately a fuel problem. I'll give the WD-40 a shot (and will hopefully not singe my eyebrows off in the process :-)

Thanks,
Brad

Hmmmm, did the carbs sit up long enough to have varnished between the time you removed them from the old engine until now. Were the float bowls drained when they were removed?
You say you have spark, so I assume you mean at the electrode on the plug when it is removed and grounded to the cylinder.
Have you visually confirmed that the choke mechanism is operating the choke plates or enricheners and not just ineffectually turning a fitting?
As a final check, I would remove the airbox and put about a 1 sec squirt of WD40 into the intake of each carb and try starting it. If it fires up or tries to run, then its highly likely a no fuel flow problem in the choke circuits. There is nothing wrong with the carbs on my 750, but if I were to try to start it without the choke/enrichener, it would not fire at all and the plugs would be dry.

If you try the WD40 to see if it will at least fire and by chance it backfires bowing flames out the carb intakes, keep cranking it to pull them into the cylinder. On a 1 sec shot of WD, it should not do that, but on that off 1 in a thousand chance, youll know what to do if need be. :-) Dont be looking into the carb intakes to see if you can tell if there is fuel being atomized while youre cranking it either. :-) :-) :-) Thought I would mention....heh heh

Earl

[Anonymous]

I'm going to try it again when I get home from work today, so hopefully it will have sat long enough. The battery will be fresh and I have both some carb cleaner and some WD40 so we'll see what happens....

On the parts, I couldn't make any suggestions other than salvage yards. There's always a Suzuki dealership, but prices are steep to say the least. The parts guy at the shop the bike was originally purchased from told me a few months ago that they can order any part for the bike - it's just a question of how much you want to pay...

Thanks!
Brad

Your in luck I have the exact answer to your question. I too have a 82 GS 450L and am in the process of fixing it up. I got it all put back together and put gas in it. It took a long time to get it to fire probably about 30 minutes. I would let it sit with gas for a while then retry. Thats what I did and it worked. I too was suprised how friggin long it took!

By the way its pretty hard to get the bike to start on WD-40 I have tried that many times on lots of machines. Use carb cleaner it works to start the engine way better than wd 40.

Unfortunatly I have a gas leak in because the carb seals are really old. I would really like it if you told me where I can get some parts for this thing. I need a carb rebuild kit to fix it up right. I got rags stuffed in front of the carbs to soak up the gas! I wish that petcock had a stupid off option like every other bike!

Good luck with your bike. Glad to see someone else has one too!

[Anonymous]

Someone asked if you have compression--perhaps i misse the reply but do you have compression-i asume you saw the replacement engine running or at least have checked the valve adjustments-- i guess it is obvious that you are not getting gas into the jugs-

Maybe you left the rubber boots off on the engine side

[silverhorse47]

[quote="Ryan"]of the carbs to soak up the gas! I wish that petcock had a stupid off option like every other bike!

Ryan...putting a little vise grip on the gasline will save you some rags....

[Anonymous]

Thank you sir I never even thought about that. I will go buy one of those mini vise grips right away. Thanks

[Anonymous]

fix

Chief I had the same problem with my '83 750ESD when I took it our of storage for the season. I hadn't run it dry or drained the carbs but all the other symptoms were the same. It was jsut an easy fix of takign the sarbs apart and giving them a nice cleaning. Actually the motorcycle shop did 'cause I couldn't figure the problem out and it was frustrating. Either way try cleanign the carbs, it sure isn't gonna hurt but it will take some elbow grease. Good luck.
Cheers,
Shaun

[Anonymous]

Fixed!

Success! Thanks for all the suggestions; after letting the bike sit for a day or so, I went back and cleaned everything up and it started almost immediately! It was actually a bit of a surprise; I was getting ready to give it a squirt of WD40 into the carbs and thought I'd turn it over a few times first but the dang thing started right away!

Thanks!
Brad

[Anonymous]

Yep thats what I did just gave the old bike some time to sit. Congrats!