Save your stock airboxes!!!

[Joe Nardy]

Stock airboxes are useless. They're too big for paper weights and plants look funny in 'em.
Pod people...unite and educate these disbelievers. Pods forever.

Keith Krause! The Great Communicator.........Beloved leader..............I'd follow you into HE*LL, sir!:-D

Joe Nardy PFC
1st POD Division

[Road_Clam]

Stock airboxes are useless.

Yea for drag racing, and holding your throttle WIDE OPEN 100% of the time.

For the other 99.999% of the time, most of us just want good RELIABLE, CONSISTANT performance, and the stock airbox is the perfect compramise of performance and rideability in all conditions. Ever get caught in torrential rains with a K&N podded bike? I did!! You won't make it 30 mi before the oiled paper elements become saturated from water and completely gag your engine of air, to the point the engine won't even run. To each his own.... and yes there is top end performance to be had from pods (at the expense of low end throttle response). I have drive both podded and non, and a podded bike is a sackless terd, until 7000K+, then and only then do pods really show their gains... Strictly my just my opinions.

[Joe Nardy]

Yea for drag racing, and holding your throttle WIDE OPEN 100% of the time.

For the other 99.999% of us that just want decent RELIABLE, CONSISTANT performance the stock airbox is the perfect compramise of performance and rideability in all conditions. Ever get caught in torrential rains with a K&N podded bike? I did!! You won't make it 30 mi before the oiled paper elements become saturated from water and completely gag your engine of air, to the point the engine won't even run. To each his own.... and yes there is top end performance to be had from pods (at the expense of low end throttle response). I have drive both podded and non, and a podded bike is a sackless terd, until 7000K+, then and only then do pods really show their gains... Strictly my just my opinions.

Road Clam,

I certainly respect your opinions but my experiences are different. My '83 1100E has run PODs for at least 15 years. I have almost 40,000 miles and the bike runs better than it ever has. I have ridden in all kinds of weather including a frog-strangling torrential downpour a couple years ago at the Brown County Rally. Anyone who has ridden my bike will tell you it is anything but a 'sackless terd' anywhere in the powerband. I can loft the front wheel from under 3K RPM and my throttle response is as crisp as any GS I have ever ridden. I think a lot of people who install PODs don't take the time to get the carbs dialed in and don't keep them clean and oiled properly. Keep in mind that a 4-1 pipe will usually also tend to add top-end power at the expense of midrange power but hardly anyone says 4-1 pipes are a waste of time and turn your bike into a sackless terd.

While I agree that there are other factors to consider, like RJ said, an engine is basically an air pump. When you put PODs on you move more air. When you move more air (and jet correctly) you also move more fuel. More air + more fuel=more horsepower, regardless of RPM.

Like you said, this is just my opinion based on my experiences. Your results may vary.............

Thanks,
Joe

[Deesel]

Yea for drag racing, and holding your throttle WIDE OPEN 100% of the time.

For the other 99.999% of the time, most of us just want good RELIABLE, CONSISTANT performance, and the stock airbox is the perfect compramise of performance and rideability in all conditions. Ever get caught in torrential rains with a K&N podded bike? I did!!

So, airboxs work good for bracket racing in the rain?

[Road_Clam]

Road Clam,

I certainly respect your opinions but my experiences are different. My '83 1100E has run PODs for at least 15 years. I have almost 40,000 miles and the bike runs better than it ever has. I have ridden in all kinds of weather including a frog-strangling torrential downpour a couple years ago at the Brown County Rally. Anyone who has ridden my bike will tell you it is anything but a 'sackless terd' anywhere in the powerband. I can loft the front wheel from under 3K RPM and my throttle response is as crisp as any GS I have ever ridden. I think a lot of people who install PODs don't take the time to get the carbs dialed in and don't keep them clean and oiled properly. Keep in mind that a 4-1 pipe will usually also tend to add top-end power at the expense of midrange power but hardly anyone says 4-1 pipes are a waste of time and turn your bike into a sackless terd.

While I agree that there are other factors to consider, like RJ said, an engine is basically an air pump. When you put PODs on you move more air. When you move more air (and jet correctly) you also move more fuel. More air + more fuel=more horsepower, regardless of RPM.

Like you said, this is just my opinion based on my experiences. Your results may vary.............

Thanks,
Joe

Joe, here is my point: you and Keith represent a TINY percentage of the generall motorcycle "performance junkie". You two individuals are obviously highly skilled tuners. You can systematically tune an engine to reap gains that are on the table when swapping to pods. Pods are NOT a simple "bolt on and fly" performance gain. If they were, every biker out there with a GS would have them. You can NOT gain any hp by simply bolting on pods. (here is the "air pump" theory which BTW I do agree with). When I negitively comment against pods, I am speaking for the far more common novice engine tinkerer. Like I said, to each his own. But again, as a generall rule pods kill performance, sorry I will maintain this opinion. I always tell people if you need more performance buy a bigger bike. It's far more simple.

[49er]

Road Clam,

While I agree that there are other factors to consider, like RJ said, an engine is basically an air pump. When you put PODs on you move more air. When you move more air (and jet correctly) you also move more fuel. More air + more fuel=more horsepower, regardless of RPM.

Joe

This arguement persists. It's never as simple as more air/fuel in equals more HP. Maintaining high air/fuel velocity with the correct fuel atomisation is the key.
Sure your engine is an air pump. Efficiency levels vary at certain rpms because of the multitude of component variables present at any point in the rev range. As Bad Billy B has pointed out, the airboxes are fitted with a very efficient extension to the carb inlet, called a velocity stack/ram tube. These extensions increase the tuned length of the intake track and the shape promotes a ram effect through use of resonance. When these are removed and pods fitted, the resonant assistance is lost and the tuned length is changed, by shortening of the inlet track. This has the effect of reducing the rate of the airflow especially at lower rpms. The effect is loss of torque in the lower/lower mid ranges but a slight increase in top HP through less restriction to airflow.
Check out the efficiency of the renowned air pump, the "Roots Supercharger". Their efficiency factor is less than 50%.
In the end it boils down to this. Are you drag racing every second weekend or riding regularly on the road.
I contend that the difference between pods and airbox in most moderately modified engines is small. The big difference is in the tractibility of your engine across the complete rev range.
Anyone who doesn't believe this should set up their bike with both options and do serious comparitive dyno testing. All parameters must remain identical except for the pods and airbox.

[katman]

This thread is getting wayyyy out of control.

Header, pods, jet it. All three not just one or the other. It is the way of the wild and has been for ever. We know it works cuz it has been working for over 20 yrs now. Forget all the particle and quantum physics and make some power or don't but lets kill this thread before everyone is riding for only the 2 optimum hrs a day becasue the temp and humidity is perfect and don't forget to use the correct fuel hose to get the proper coefficient of drag through the tube and PLEASE PLEASE... stay away from big hills and valleys cuz of the barametric prease fluctuations.....

COME ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ITS AN air filter not a shuttle launch.

[Guyver]

My Two Cents

I've ridden the same model bike with a four into one, pods and a jet kit installed and I've ridden that same bike stock. In comparison the stock form seemed to be highly restricted and definitely lacked the power and response of the modified bike no matter the amount of throttle being applied. I felt the bike breathe better and the performance was much better with the modifications.

You can get crazy and cite other things that you have to change as well but these are the basic three to get the best bang for the buck. It's inane to argue making changes to the valves, the head and so on an so forth. Where do you stop? I stopped where I got the best performance and didn't mess with the stock reliability. Upgrades come in a lot of different forms, you can do the basics such as I recommend or go whole hog and re-engineer the entire bike.

Certain mechanical upgrades such as cams, valves, big bore kits, welded clutch baskets and welded cranks, increase performance dramatically. The problem with these things is reliability. The Japanese engineers that built the bike to begin with are still smarter than most, even though most of them are dead or really old, and they over engineered the bike and designed it to perform within certain parameters. Any mechanical changes beyond basic upgrades can and will increase performance; however, it will come at the sake of a loss of reliability.

The stock airbox was purposefully designed to be restrictive and to work with the bike's intake and exhaust to achieve a certain level of performance. They are much more efficient on today's bikes and still get messed with. If it was the optimum choice when these bikes were built then why didn't any of yesteryear's performance kings ride a stock bike? In two words: better performance. It's just common sense.

A few things about pods in the rain. First off, if it's raining you shouldn't be on a bike; it's dangerous. If you get caught on a bike in the rain then odds are you knew or should have known it was going to rain. I'm not talking misting, sprinkling or anything of the sort. Rain folks, the sky borne droplets of moisture that cause mass confusion here in Southern California like it's a first ever phenom and the next thing that's sure to happen is the heavens opening, angels singing and the second coming.

If you are in a torrential downpour of the biblical proportions that a previous poster must have encountered then yes, pods can get wet and suck moisture into the carbs. In that case please refer to my original two points about bikes and rain. I would think that wet pods would be the least of your worries if you're in that much rain. Typically in a seated position your legs cover the general area where the pods are nestled and not subject to much exposure to the elements other than air. A good puddle splash and they can still get wet though. In that event refer to point number one...you shouldn't be on a bike in the rain.

[RacingJake]

Slap some Lectrons on and the only thing you have to worry about is if there's a gas station 40 miles down the road.

[Guyver]

Besides...

Pods are c@@l!

[Commodus]

....

First off, if it's raining you shouldn't be on a bike; it's dangerous. If you get caught on a bike in the rain then odds are you knew or should have known it was going to rain. I'm not talking misting, sprinkling or anything of the sort. Rain folks, the sky borne droplets of moisture that cause mass confusion here in Southern California like it's a first ever phenom and the next thing that's sure to happen is the heavens opening, angels singing and the second coming.

If you are in a torrential downpour of the biblical proportions that a previous poster must have encountered then yes, pods can get wet and suck moisture into the carbs. In that case please refer to my original two points about bikes and rain. I would think that wet pods would be the least of your worries if you're in that much rain. Typically in a seated position your legs cover the general area where the pods are nestled and not subject to much exposure to the elements other than air. A good puddle splash and they can still get wet though. In that event refer to point number one...you shouldn't be on a bike in the rain.

Hahahaha! Fair weather rider! *points and laughs* (just kidding!)

Buy some filtre covers you bunch of weirdoes! Keep 'em handy and when it rains slap 'em on and keep riding!

Commodus' rule of wet weather riding: The faster you go, the higher the spray!

[Mike McNaney]

That pretty much as I imagined. I havent had enough carb problems to worry about it. I guess my boys old honda is using a VM if thats the case.

Im really wondering whats up with all the carb jetting problems everybody complains about. i guess my upgrades have hovered somewhat around the stock parameters. 1166 and BS 36's are in the range of a stock 1150 exept for the cams. Web .340's. I only needed two steps up on the mains after the cam install. They were at 137.5. I actually tried 147.5's and the top end was impressive but I left a black trail of smoke everywere I went. The 142.5's are about perfect for my combo it seems.

Complete acceleration with no sag all the way to 9 grand.

I'll count myself lucky I guess.

By the way do all you guys change your mains and bits with the carbs on the bike? I hope so. 15 minutes total.
With all the problems zeroing in, that alone would be a huge pain.

[KEITH KRAUSE]

Road Clam,

I certainly respect your opinions but my experiences are different. My '83 1100E has run PODs for at least 15 years. I have almost 40,000 miles and the bike runs better than it ever has. I have ridden in all kinds of weather including a frog-strangling torrential downpour a couple years ago at the Brown County Rally. Anyone who has ridden my bike will tell you it is anything but a 'sackless terd' anywhere in the powerband. I can loft the front wheel from under 3K RPM and my throttle response is as crisp as any GS I have ever ridden. I think a lot of people who install PODs don't take the time to get the carbs dialed in and don't keep them clean and oiled properly. Keep in mind that a 4-1 pipe will usually also tend to add top-end power at the expense of midrange power but hardly anyone says 4-1 pipes are a waste of time and turn your bike into a sackless terd.

While I agree that there are other factors to consider, like RJ said, an engine is basically an air pump. When you put PODs on you move more air. When you move more air (and jet correctly) you also move more fuel. More air + more fuel=more horsepower, regardless of RPM.

Like you said, this is just my opinion based on my experiences. Your results may vary.............

Thanks,
Joe

Well said private....uh....make that, Sergeant!;-)

[Guyver]

Hahahaha! Fair weather rider! *points and laughs* (just kidding!)

Buy some filtre covers you bunch of weirdoes! Keep 'em handy and when it rains slap 'em on and keep riding!

Commodus' rule of wet weather riding: The faster you go, the higher the spray!

Commodus,

I appreciate the jest about fair weather riding. I ride whenever I can just to do so. I am anything but a fair weather rider. I have been riding for about 27 years now. When I first started riding all I had was a bike, an '82 Yamaha XT550 enduro. I rode it year round rain or shine. Same thing with the myriad of other bikes I have had. Heck, I even bought a 125 enduro and rode it home in the rain, on the freeway, without a helmet (before the helmet law was passed).

Let me tell you rain stings like heck at freeway speeds. The skies just happened to open up on my way home after I bought the bike. I'm sure that signs were there that it was going to rain in retrospect. I even went down due to the rain on my old XT550 right on Market Street in San Francisco due to A) the rain and B) stupid cable car steel inlays in the street. Even crossing at an angle didn't help. That bike was down before I could even think about it. I'm just really cautious about mixing bikes and rain. That being said I will take my mountain bike out in the rain. Mountain bike + rain + mud = fun. ~Gene

[KEITH KRAUSE]

K&N pods and a quality pipe is the best bang for the buck you can get.
If you're concerned about some small loss of torque at lower rpm's (mostly the CV equipped bikes) then dial in your cams at about 106 to 108. If you then prepare the bike the way it should be and you re-jet the way you should, you'll have a bike with a very nice powerband, great street manners, and it will spank the same model that's identical but with stock airbox and exhaust. Spank it on a 60 mph roll on, spank it in a drag race. That's just the way it is.
Todays bikes have very good intakes. Our bikes have very good restrictors called airboxes.
Literally every case about a re-jet gone bad can be traced back to the owner not setting the bike up correctly in preparation for the re-jet, not understanding the basics of how their carbs work, not using quality parts, not using compatible parts/mods, or any combination of the above.
You can't take short cuts or throw on any pipe or not bother to check this or that and expect great things.
Too many owners have done the job right. It's not by chance that their bikes runs better than stock. Don't blame parts that are proven to work. Blame the rest of the bikes condition or tuning or blame the one doing the work.
Only thing I'll say against pods is I suppose heavy rain, in certain conditions, could cause a problem. But I'd take that anytime. I don't need to though because I see no good reason to ride in the rain. I take the Blazer.