Super Cool Patented High Performance Exhaust Available Now (Add echo effect here)

[pntrdave]

I guess with those pipes the center stand would be useless????

[highmileage]

They look like they would make oil changes a pain in the *ss.

[Commodus]

Physics is physics. If they have enough baffling to provide any silence, in that small of a package, they're going to be restrictive. If they don't, they're going to be just like running an open and very short 4-2. It doesn't matter what fancy box they're in or what "mad professor" built them.

No speculation required on this one.

Edit - nevermind, the auction itself gives all the proof we need:

If you are running a stock airbox, you do not need to rejet at all with this exhaust. If you are running individual air filters and/or a modified engine, you need only go up on the main jets. No jet kit needed, ever!

There's only one reason why an exhaust would not require rejetting - because it doesn't flow any better than the stock system.

And how does it not scavenge? Maybe the collector area is baffled? Because it looks like it expands to me, and if you allow the gases to expand like that you have to have some scavenging going on, don't you?

[QuaiChangKane]

P.S. If anyone is interested I have a manual for Mikuni RS Series Flat Slides on CD. A copy is yours for $3.00, just enough to cover postage, a mailer and a disk.

Got a buyer right here. PM me your contact info when you get the chance.




And I had to Google the Snuf'R'Nots....




Kind of like a cut-off valve for car headers.


But I do dig the look of that pipe. If it were about 200 bones, I might go for it. Heck, it oughta be that cheap since it's got no mufflers. I don't understand how there's any science behind this pipe, as it's no real change from a 4-1 with a short header (like a drag pipe). All 4 head pipes feed into a common collector with no special attention given to routing, and then the exhaust exits from two ports which is really no improvement over a free-flowing single port. On real 4-1 or 4-2-1 pipes, the pipe can be tuned based on which cylinders combine, length of the headers, where they combine, and baffling, right?

Comparatively, this is like an open header - but one that needs no rejetting...? Don't buy one bit of it, but it sure looks cool!


FWIW, the first thing I did was try to find the quoted shops on the web, too - of course to no avail.


(Edit - and the fact that he refers to the pipe being for a Kawasaki several times in the description speaks volumes about his attention to detail...)


-Q!

[pan]

Yes, physics is physics but any pipe will only be good at a specific RPM range. Having tried plenty of pipes on road bikes I have found that a full race spec system can be a pig to use in traffic. A good road pipe will always be a compromise, what we really need is a good wide spread of torque. Now, I know that some people reading this will be thinking that the GS1000 has this already and they are right but there are substantial improvements to be had for little effort.
Anyone who has ever removed a factory GS exhaust will confirm that it is one heavy piece of equipment ( I have one off at the moment so will weigh it when I get a chance ) so if all you gain is the loss of bulk from a standard system but retained standard exhaust performance then in my book you have still gained.
A lot of my experience has come from working on friends 2 stroke race bikes and a general rule of thumb is to find a engine setup that makes good usable power ( not ultimate on the edge of blowing up power ) and then make the bike as light as possible. I know this may sound a little contradictory to use a race analogy as I have already stated that a race system can be useless on the road but what I am trying to put over is biggest is not always the best.
I have known people with more money than sense who have bought all the best / most expensive bits available only to end up with a package of parts that did not work well together and the result was something that was a nightmare to ride. So go for the middle ground and think outside the box:-)

I hope this makes sense but its Friday night and beer has been drunk,

Mark...

[Mike_H]

I know that on hotrod cars, the builders sometimes bring dual pipes together, and weld an X in them. Supposed to balance out the sound or some darn thing.

The reason Jetting may not be required, is that where the 4 pipes join, and then split off, is a large area. When a gas has that much room to expand, its velocity will slow down, thus bringing the soundwaves closer together. That will create backpressure, which everyone knows, is a restriction to the exhaust of spent gases from the cylinder. Some backpressure is a good thing, too much, and you don't get a good intake charge, and poor running. I will wait for someone else to try it.

[QuaiChangKane]

I will wait for someone else to try it.

How'd you get into my head???

[KEITH KRAUSE]

I'd like to put my fist in Monty's mouth. He's a real smart ass.
I told him not to BS people and he started playing e-mail games.
He likes to talk but he can't really back it up. All he can say is how the pipe scavenges. Not much else that really matters.

[49er]

Pan,

I support your logic on this.

Generally, standard exhaust systems operate effectively over a broad range of rpm. When we get greedy for greater performance we believe that we must go bigger. It is true that there is no substitute cubic inches.

The next move is bigger valves, race bred cams, bigger carbs, big bore exhausts etc, etc.
All these mods have an affect on each other. The trick is to maintain a balance, or we end up with a road machine that is totally untractable/unreliable.
I have experimented with performance road/race 4-1 and 2-1 exhaust systems, along with a few 2 stroke expansion chambers on bikes, go carts and yes, rotaries.
All these systems produced their broadest range of torque when the tuned length was calculated to coincide with around 3/4 of their usable rpm.
They all benefit greatly from pressure/sound pulses arriving at the port window/valve pocket at just the right moment. Scavenge is happening.

The early motorcross expansion chambers consisted of a series of inline cones with an expansion area in between and a presssure bleeder/stinger. They were baulky.
Then some tuner experimented with jinking the pipes aroung the engine and frame hoping to improve handing /weight, only to discover that this shape produced a greater range of power over the same tuned length. This was caused by the sound waves travelling back to the exhaust port window over a longer duration. The cones now had bevelled inlets.
A friend of mine rallied an RX3 with a 12A bridge port and a 2-1 extractor that branched just under the drivers seat. He blew his motor, and fitted a standard earlier twin distributor 12a until he rebuilt the race motor.
We chopped the extractor at the collector and fitted an expansion chamber. Surprisingly,the standard motor had far more low to upper midrange torque than the bridgeport. He refitted the bridgeport, but found that the chamber didn't work as well as with the standard ported motor.
4 stroke engines also benefit from longer duration sound waves travelling back to the valve pockets. The area behind the collector can be tappered or straight. The cross section area and lenght are inportant. The power band/torque range can be greatly increased by having the exhaust gases exiting through a bevel cut pipe. The bigger the bevel angle, the greater the range.
I run one of these pipes on my 850. It is moderately muffled but is a lot quieter than all other 4-1's I have heard. I still run the VM carbs and airbox.
Had I not been happy with my setup, I would have been tempted to give Monty's pipe a try.

Cheers

[terry]

Ok, so I think I want to try one, if everyone here buys one of my new "Telcool MK5" oil cooler adapters, (still only $75.00, what a bargain!) I'll volunteer to buy the first X Pipe here, and do a full test, including a "before and after" Dyno report. Who's in? Cheers, Terry.

[49er]

Yeah, I'm a starter Terry.

I wasn't planning on running an oil cooler on the 850, but it may be an advantage after raising the CR. I guess I'll know after its first mid summer run.
I'm picking that the X-pipe system hasn't taken off because of the oil changing issues and excessive heat build up in the sump area due to radiation off those close fitting pipes.
PM me for details if you decide to go ahead.
Cheers
Ian

[terry]

G'Day Ian, no worries mate, here's some pics of the new adapter, I built this one to make it a little easier to fit, and to be a bit more versatile regarding hose routing. Cheers, Terry.

http://s147.photobucket.com/albums/r316/TerryinOz/?sc=1&addtype=local

[RIFLEMAN]

I remember these from 'back in the day'. They never caught on.
Looks like someone bought some old inventory.
The theory was that they made more power over a wider revband. A 4-1 really only has an advantage in a very narrow range. This is why all the exhaust ystems emloyed by the oem's have several different exhaust valve arrangements to widen the band.
This thing is very similar in principle to an X-pipe that is found in most high performance automotive exhaust systems.
Seriously,aside from this guys goofy rhetoric(alot of whats is in his post is taken straight from the old ads)it may have been nothing more than 'fashion' that kept this design from going farther. The Codgers remember when everybody thought 4 straights were better than a 4-1.
Kevin Cameron once stated that if bikes were designed to be truly aerodynamic the oem's couldn't sell any because they wouldn't look like peoples perceived notions of what a bike should look like.
Underseat exhaust are a perfect example. The alleged aero advantages are minimal,they might aid cornering clearance,but a properly designed conventional pipe addresses those issues,the muffler that high and hung out past the back axle isn't helping handling and the several extra bends in the pipe ain't helpin' flow(on MotoGP bikes,the underseat pipes get a straight shot from rear cylinder banks).
Basically,they are on the bikes because 'they look cool'. The factory teams running production bikes have said its been a real bear to get the systems to work the way they want,but have to use them because CORPORATE has dictated there use and the rules require a stock configured system.

[pan]

"I run one of these pipes on my 850. It is moderately muffled but is a lot quieter than all other 4-1's I have heard. I still run the VM carbs and airbox."


49er, do you have any pictures of the 850 with the above fitted?

Cheers,
Mark...

[49er]

Pan,
I do have one pic that was taken just afer I bought the bike. It's taken with an SLR on film.
A mate has scanned it for me but it is way bigger than accepted on this site.
I need to work out how to digitally reduce its size and then I'll post it.
Any ideas?
Cheers