Nitrous

[Guest]

Can someone educate me on nitrous please. I have been thinking about it for some time now. I know it is not worth it to put it on, especially on an old gs700, but I think it would be different to have. Also, I think it would help me to learn more about bikes and would allow my bike to have a much higher "show off" factor :-D .

I was thinking about putting in a 25hp shot at the most in the bike. From what I understand and read, I will have to retard my timing and install colder plugs with a smaller gap on them. Also, I have read that you get ~10bhp per pound per minute, So if I have a 2.5 pound bottle at 25hp I should have ~60 seconds of nitrous per bottle. I would like more, but figure I am limited by bottle size on the bike.

Also, I have read that instead of getting an expensive nitrous bottle, I can just get a bottle that holds co2 or some other gas. I have found these on ebay, and they are 5 pound bottles. I think though that they are going to be too big to fit on the bike.

http://cgi.ebay.com/5-Pound-Aluminum-Carbon-Dioxide-CO2-Bottle-Great-Buy_W0QQitemZ200110344035QQihZ010QQcategoryZ83044QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I have not found the price of the nitrous per pound and was also wondering if anyone could give me an estimate, I know different places charge different ammounts.

Also, wondering what the laws were regarding the nitrous, I was wondering if anyone knew what they were exactly, are you not allowed to have the valve open? I think that that is what I heard, but could be mistaken.

I am still playing around with the idea and am not sure if I am going to do it, but was wondering if I follow through who might have some part that I can buy from them aswell.

Thank you very much, any suggestions would be appricated.
Nick

[Nicholaschase29]

Also, if someone could tell me the difference between a wet and dry nitrous kit too.
Thanks,
Nick

[Steve]

Can't help you with the difference between wet and dry systems, but it sounds like an awful lot of work for a 25hp boost. Besides adding the nitrous and all its plumbing, you have to add a fuel pump to go along with the nitrous. If you just inject nitrous, your mixture will be drastically lean, so you have to add a LOT of gas to burn up all the extra oxygen you are adding with the nitrous.

You are also only going to use it at full throttle, because that is where the micro-switches are set. If you are going to be running down the dragstrip, that might be practical, but on the street you have to be running in some pretty serious company to do it right.

Also, what about all the bracing that might be necessary on the frame and swing arm to handle all the extra power?

And...please don't forget that you don't want to use it in a corner.


.

[Nicholaschase29]

I figure I will have to be adding those things, my uncle has a car with nitrous and he is putting a bigger fuel pump into it so I will be able to use his. Also, I figured on putting some sort of external gas tank with race gas in it to combine with the nitrous, and premium in the normal gas tank.

My other uncle should be able to get me free or really cheap hoses for the plumbing aswell.

I would think the frame and everything would be able to handle an extra 15-25hp (I would'nt go any higher than that), but I am no expert. I figure suzuki made the frames to be built up to handal quite a bit more than stock hp in order to keep the parts from breaking and having themselves be liable for accidents.

I think that it would be a fun project to do, and just want to see the results.

[Big Jay]

Those bottles are no good. Nitrous bottles have a code on them, and most suppliers will not fill the bottles if they don't have the code. When we were doing it, I think we were getting $3.50 per lb.

Wet and dry kits. When you inject nitrous in a motor, you also have to add fuel. If you don't you will burn holes in the pistons in an nstant.

Wet kit has both nitrous and the added fuel injected into the motor, usually with a fogger nozzle. That is why it is called "wet"

Dry kits only inject nitrous, and can only be used on fuel injected motors. The computer can sense the additional "air", and adds the necessary fuel.

http://www.aperaceparts.com/nos.html

Jau

[49er]

I figure I will have to be adding those things, my uncle has a car with nitrous and he is putting a bigger fuel pump into it so I will be able to use his. Also, I figured on putting some sort of external gas tank with race gas in it to combine with the nitrous, and premium in the normal gas tank.

My other uncle should be able to get me free or really cheap hoses for the plumbing aswell.

I would think the frame and everything would be able to handle an extra 15-25hp (I would'nt go any higher than that), but I am no expert. I figure suzuki made the frames to be built up to handal quite a bit more than stock hp in order to keep the parts from breaking and having themselves be liable for accidents.

I think that it would be a fun project to do, and just want to see the results.

You shouldn't have too much trouble with the frame or running gear by increasing your output by 25hp.
I don't think you need to be restricted to using the nitrous only at full throttle. I'm sure you can bring it in earlier if you want to.

Besides the advice on retarding timing and extra fuel injection, you need to consider this. Will your stock pistons have a thick enough crown to transfer the extra heat produced by running nitrous. Very short bursts might be ok, but can you trust yourself to limit the duration when having fun?? You could limit the duration of nitrous by a timer, but that guy with the turboed ............. will just crank on past you.

[Nicholaschase29]

I am doing quite a bit of reading now, and am about 75% sure that I am going to do this. If there are any racers out there that have nitrous parts that they are not using and may want to sell, let me know. I am looking for four foggers, solinoids, and a 2.5# bottle. Or if anyone knows where I can get these items for cheap/used, I would appreciate it aswell. Still just window shopping, but if I am going through with this, I would know where to get things.
Thanks,
Nick

[puffdaddy_1969]

Nitro reply

:shock: It seems a little strange that you are only going for a 25 HP boost considering how much $ the system is going to cost. you probobly could safely get more as stout as gs engines are built. anyway good luck on your project, one thing to keep in mind after you get the system up and running. After you get out of the nitrous the motor still has nitrous in it so you will have a "lag time" for the motor to burn the remaining nitrous, in other words you back out of throtle and bike is still making power.
This is normal, just one of those things no one tells you. good luck and have fun and be safe.

[Nerobro]

Nitrous doesn't need to cost much..

http://www.diy-nitrous.fsnet.co.uk/motorcycle-nitrous-injection-system.htm

[Nicholaschase29]

That is the site I got alot of information on, along with several trips to the library. Like I said before my uncle has done it and should help me.. I think it would be really cool. Now I'm wondering about where to put the foggers (i havent bought anything yet, not until I get everything planned out.) but anyway, I was thinking about making pvc spacer between the carb and the air filters (individual). I found some pvc that is 48mm OD and this could be used with some electrical tape wrapped around it to make the OD larger, with my 54mm clamp on k and n's. I would also use a pvc coupler that is stepped up to the next larger size pipe. I would wrap some electrical tape around my carbs and put the coupler around them. I was thinking about making 4 cuts too around the coupler 90 degrees from eachother and then putting a hose clamp around each one to hold it tight on there... We will see what I come up with. Still hav'nt found a good spot to put the bottle. I want no less than a 2.5lb bottle which is ~12" by ~4.5". I cant find a good spot to fit it. And I am hesitant to hang it off the side of the bike incase I go down on the bike..

Nick

[Nerobro]

I'm not sure I'd worry about hanging the bottle off the side of the bike. Nitrous is stored as a liquid, and while it's at 700-1200 psi in the bottle, as soon as it starts to vent the pressure drops astronomically. The actual volume of gas in the tank is small. And to maintain pressure as you drain liquid off, the bottle boils more liquid, making the tank cooler. As the tank gets colder the pressure drops. So while the tank popping is violent at first, it quickly becomes not so scary. As long as the tank is full, or nearly so, it's a very different thing from a compressed air tank. As the tank gets nearer to empty, it becomes more happy to hurt you.

If you're crashing the bike.. you've got bigger things to worry about than the tank popping. :-) I also have a very, very, healthy fear of compressed gasses. Also keep in mind, nitrous tanks are freakishly hard to really damage. The DOT makes sure of that.

That said, I'd still try to keep it in the frame.

Why are you set on a 2.5lb tank? Do the math on volume to area, you'll be better off with smaller tanks. You want the greatest tank surface area you can manage for a given volume of nitrous. The greater the area, the greater the ability to absorb heat from the surrounding air is. A trio of 9oz tanks will fit almost anywhere on a bike. Or a pair of 12oz tanks. You should be concerned about keeping the pressure up in the system, that makes more tanks is a good thing.

[Nicholaschase29]

doing some research and measureing i found that I could put two 12 oz bottles under my seat, if I modify the rear underfender. they are 11" by 2.5". That would only give me 24 oz, a lb is 16oz so that is 1.5lb. I sould really like to have more than that, as it would not last long, I'm going to look into 1lb bottles.. and see how big they are.. I would get a few 12oz but I want to keep the cost down. Thanks for the suggestion though, I will do some more research about it.

[lecroy]

I'm not sure I'd worry about hanging the bottle off the side of the bike. ....That said, I'd still try to keep it in the frame.

Just an FYI, I am sure the ProStar rules don't allow it outside the frame rails. If you decide to mount it outside and want to run at your local track, you may want to ask them first.

[Nerobro]

I'm ok with that rule. :-)

As for the research, avoid nitrous specific research, it seems to be as full of BS as the world of paintball. Look into gas law and vapor pressures. Paintball can also be your savior when it comes to containers. CO2 bottles are rated for 1800psi, not the 1200 that NO2 gets to. So they're safer if anything. Not to mention they're cheap. Like $20 a bottle cheap.

[Nicholaschase29]

Yea, I was considering them, although I am not sure if the nitrous place would fill them. Not paintball co2 canisters, but co2 canisters for a beer tap or something. Also, to race on the track, I thought it had to be infront of the rear wheel if it was outside of the frame... I will see what I come up with..