Track Stories 08

[RacingJake]

I'd figure it would of been a Dragbike

[lecroy]

I took the red motor apart yesterday and got the other new cases out of the paint booth. Ended up just doing black. Ended up just using them but left all the studs in the red cases. Plan to weld the red ones and keep them as a spare set.

This is how it ended up..



Stock 1100 cases. Cleaned, machined and painted.
Rebuilt the starter motor with new brushes.
Dyna SP4000 pickup and rotor. Plan to stay with MSD for the ignition.
Ward oil pickup and stock pan.
New oil pump and gears, 750 ratio.
Orient Express / R&D transmission rebuilt by FBG with billet output, 2nd and 3rd. New HD bearings and springs. Full race cut, no auto.
New forks and moly rods.
APE lower/ upper stud kit.
1100 big end crank, built by Pearson with new 493 rods, new MTC gear, all new bearings and full weld.
MTC billet clutch basket with SC gear. 1100 ratio.
MTC multi-stage lockup.
FBG plates.
Star clutch cover.
APE custom made tool steel wrist pins.
MTC 8:1 pistons, 1428cc w/ teflon buttons.
Cometic head gasket and spacer.
MTC block, O ringed
1100 head, FBG installed some larger SS valves, titainium keepers, PS springs with 70/65 lbs seat pressure In/Ex. Topped it all off with some port work.
APE cam sprockets.
APE chain tensioner.
Web cams.
Ward top end oiler with Mr. Turbo oil pickup.
All the bearings and seals are also new.

[RacingJake]

Nice Mark, so how much boost this year ??

[lecroy]

Not sure. I learned a lot last year about the tuneup and was trying to conserve $$$ while I figured it all out. I left the cams out of the motor to keep the load off the springs. Keeping my fingers crossed that this motor can sit out for a few years... Part of the reason it had to come apart was to make some of the changes that were done to the other motor. A lot to learn.

I was dropping the boost at the end of last year year. These motors will make maybe 100HP without boost. That's why my 60's are so poor (1.27-1.30). Figure 7-8 HP / PSI of boost. Never had one on a dyno, but these are Terry's numbers. I calc. HP based on weight, weather and E/T with my logger and it seems close. I reduced the boost 8PSI from the prior year but gained 0.25 off the E/T. Huge change. A lot of this was getting the clutch, gearing and shift points figured out. Plus a little driver improvement. LOL I have a few more things I want to try to see if it helps before I turn it back up.

My goal this year is the same as last year, get it into the 7's. Last runs I was all the way down to 10 PSI and running 8.50s. So I still think 25 PSI will get me there.

[madjack57754]

I don't know if you guys have seen this before but Mike Berry makes these for the ProStock bike guys. Uses Milwaukee 18V cordless drill batteries. I bought his old Trac Dynamics Chassis bike last summer and it came with the 14.4 volt battery set up. I reworked an e-bay bought charging station for my funnybike laydown chassis and now use the cordless drill batteries in both bikes. Fast and easy to swap batteries, and you can pick up everything you need pretty reasonable used in the pawn shops of fleebay. I have a double battery charging station in the pits so I have fresh batteries ready at all times. This is the slick setup as far as I'm concerned. No more hooking up a battery charger between rounds

[lecroy]

Uses Milwaukee 18V cordless drill batteries. I bought his old Trac Dynamics Chassis bike last summer and it came with the 14.4 volt battery set up. I reworked an e-bay bought charging station for my funnybike laydown chassis and now use the cordless drill batteries in both bikes.

Sounds like a nice bike. Post a few pictures when you have a chance...

I have heard of a lot of guys going this route with some good results. Seems like it could be a good idea in some cases. I have an on-board starter on my bike so it wouldn't work for me. Not too concerned with weight at this stage. I would be better off getting a lighter chassis than anything. The bikes we E/T race all use the 545 with the SP-4000. We charge the battery once a day and call it good. Works for us, but we aren't trying to run full out.

I damaged an MSD last summer and I dug into the potting to see what the failure was. (I posted the details on the MSD powersports site if your interested). Turns out they used a part that was not rated for even near what they spec'ed the unit to run at. Not a real simple fix in the design. This was actually the part that had failed in mine. I was able to replace it and get the unit working again. Using a higher voltage on the MSD is a bad idea.

Not sure about any other electronics but I would think at 14.4 you would be safe.

[madjack57754]

The bike is the one in my avitar, (sans bodywork).
I was leary about the 18V battery too. Checked with Mike and he told me that If I was running the Dyna 4000 or the MSD MC-4 digital, It would be no problem. anything else like a dyna 400 and I should run the 14.4's

[lecroy]

Man, I'm too old to see that little picture without a 1000X magnifier. LOL.

This is the link to the information I gave to MSD's support about the MC-4. Run this by your bud Mike.

http://msdignition.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9876

"The patent shows the part UCC3800 device being protected with a P6KE12A. The maximum breakdown voltage for this part is 12.6, which is already outside the absolute maximum rating of the UCC3800 device. Looking at the pulsed clamp voltage, it is up at 16.7, way outside what the UCC3800 part can handle."

FYI, MSD never came back with a response about this potential issue.

[madjack57754]

Wow did you go after them on this. Way past my understanding.
I sent Mike an e-mail with your link.
I'm interested to hear what he has to say too.

[rosco15]

So they said a 2 year old $700 ignition couldn't be fixed and you went, found a flaw in their design, and fixed the ignition with a $3 part. WOW. I think msd has a problem. Makes me very glad I don't have their ignition.

[lecroy]

Well, you make it sound so simple but in a nutshell, thats the jist of it. I had posted it on db.com with some pictures of the milling/depotting. It was a mess. I think I could repair units that failed this way to where they could be used again. They would not sell me just the heat sinks but I think I could repair them by cutting a 1" X 1" square in the sink and use a dremel to cut through the PCB to get to the part.

I did run my repaired one on the bike and made some passes with it. It works fine but not sure how much I would trust it after hacking on it so much.

The story did not stop there. The new ignition seems to have a problem where it cuts out for a fixed length of time. Like its getting lost. It about took my head off. I sent it into them to look at but they could not find any thing wrong with it. So I made a bike simulator that runs from my PC. Made a signal generator to drive the trigger inputs. Then beat the crap out of the new unit for a few days. There is some ways I can run it and it gets into this strange mode but if I plug the old ignition in with the same settings it works fine.

I was measuring all sorts of crap and putting all sorts of crank torsional noise into it. Crazy stuff but it was the only way to get it to hickup. I ended up replacing everything from the rotor, pickup, connectors all the way back to the MSD. Same thing. So, I'm still not 100% sure where the real problem is. I can't take the boost up if the ignition has a chance of a glitch. Not real happy about the whole experience. Wish I had never upgraded as I never had any problems with that old MSD unit.

That said, I still like the MSD design. When it works, it works very good. I have never fouled a plug with it and doubt I could. The MC4 has a very smooth 2-step and the timing curves are out of this world. The software for it is also top notch. You better be a techno nut if you decide to play with one. I'm sure your Schnitz box is similar.

[rosco15]

Years back I was getting popping as I was going down track with the mc2 and dyna s. Changed all kinds of things, but never could figure it out. I finally re-wired the entire bike and put the Schnitz box on.

Found these online.

http://s256.photobucket.com/albums/hh180/Busaquick/prostar%202004/?action=view&current=P1010030.jpg

http://s256.photobucket.com/albums/hh180/Busaquick/prostar%202004/?action=view&current=P1010029.jpg

[lecroy]

Very cool!!! That was back when Greg was trying to run it in ProStar T/G class. The bike was just too heavy and could never cover the number. This was why he retired the bike and built the Raptor. Looking at the body, you wouldn't think too much has changed....

The bike was originally owned by Jack Danials. It was all red and white back then and did not have the front clip on it.


My original problem with the engine breaking up was at a certain boost. If I backed it down a PSI it would stop, bring it back up and it would studder. Seemed like it could be a plug gap problem but Terry was saying no way. Turns out the the seat pressure had not been set right. I'm not sure this was the problem but I have had the motor running at higher levels of boost with no signs of the studder, yet. Now it just cuts out and gives the rider whiplash or a broken neck.

You can hear the stumble down track..

http://videos.streetfire.net/video/b82bb07d-23ee-44eb-9392-996901356db7.htm

I was going to try a couple more things before giving up on MSD. Kicking is I believer the new ignition has a problem. MSD says no. I understand their view because it seems difficult to make it fail on the bench.

I have a set of the Dyna coils sitting hear that came with that prostock block I sent you pictures of. I also have the pickup already, (assuming they use the single magnet).

[lecroy]

My home made motorcycle simulator. The board with the green cable hooked to it is my homemade signal generator. LabView runs all the equipment. Core on the plug wire was to measure ignition timing. I should rip a little movie of it. I got carried away and had it playing some music from the noise off the plugs.

[madjack57754]

This is in your house?