misunderstanding, ripoff or am I just thick.

[psyguy]

i dont see that anyone is "at fault", since both sides have valid arguments
but, i think it would be a nice gesture from the seller to offer a refund - purely though because it portrays a "customer-friendly" attitude
and the cams can be sold to somebody else someday, i assume, so no real loss of money, just as if the sale didnt happen in the first place

[tone]

Hmm its a difficult one this guys i wont say my opinion on putting gsxr cams in a gs head one way or the other as opinions differ on what can be done reliably & what can't, its down to the guy doing the build to decide

I do think the best solution would be for the cams to go back to ray & the cash back to katman that way nobody loses out :-D

[lecroy]

Wow.

Katman, I just gave away for free a set of very low mile 1150 cams. Others may feel you should get an award for doing the right thing, me I see it different. Personally, I would have just bought the OEM parts and been done with it. Why on earth you would risk putting something into a stock motor that is not stock OEM is beyond me. Then there is the question of why would you ever use used parts (like cams) in a rebuild? If it was for your own bike that you were tinkering with I could understand, but here is a person who trusted you with their motor. You should have never even considered going this direction!

After two weeks, why not call him up and cancel? It should have never came to this and it should not have been posted. Was the goal only to see if you could get your money back? Why damage someones rep for what was your fault. You did not do the research. You did not buy OEM, hel l you didn't even buy new?

I don't know Ray at all. If I ever make it out that way I will need to stop in and see what he's up to. I'm sure he was just trying to help and sounds like the price was fair. I will say that I seldom would take any used parts back. Shipping is normally a high percent of the sale on used GS parts. If the cams were bad, that would be a different story but sounds like they were checked.

You asked, I posted.

[Matchless]

Disputes do happen and reading this thread also showed that even if though there was a dispute, the members still handled it in a decent way. On other forums I have seen flaming and personal attacks that can do much more harm.

I personally have certainly had a heads up on this, as this again points out the difficulties when buying unseen.
Nothing beats having the item in your hands when buying.
I think good pictures and photos before the deal is a must when buying unseen. A seller should also point out any difference if they are able to and back it up with photos or a especially comparison photos if they can.

I feel a distance seller should in actual fact allow a return, say within 3 days of receiving as part of a sale, just because of the fact that he is selling unseen. Yes, I know, some buyers are going to try and rip someone off, but distance buying will always be more riskier unfortunately.

From my side congratulations on for keeping this dispute as civil as possible and finally coming to a satisfactory solution.

[KEITH KRAUSE]

Wow tough call. But if Ray just gives the original payment back and gets his cams back it would be like this never happened kind of like hitting the reset button. No harm no foul.
1 vote for KATMAN

Absolutely. Why wouldn't he agree to this? Especially after you ate shipping both ways. Not cool.

[Cassius086]

Sure hope this doesn't turn into a flame war...just call it done...lessons learned, and be done. :-D

[lecroy]

Absolutely. Why wouldn't he agree to this? Especially after you ate shipping both ways. Not cool.

Ray would have to cover the MO or check, stamp, and his time. In his case, if he is doing it to put food on the table, theres a difference. You can only go so far to try and help someone out. Most places have a restock fee to cover this...

[Steveb64]

I agree, I wasn't after performance improvement. I was after 1150 stock cams and Ray said he had some stock gsxr cams that will work.

He did tell me he had been running them for some time and a drag race buddy of his was running them with no apparent issues so I said ok why not.

Fair enough. I can see how it's all happened... :roll:

[bonanzadave]

No disrespect to the parties involved, but I think it would be beneficial if this thread was deleted. You can search threads that a user has posted and I do not think anyone wants to not look good to someone who is trying to assess who they are getting information from. This discussion should have been addressed to Dear Abbey

IMHO, I dont think so. Its good info in a kinda soap opera way. We can all learn from this one. I bought some hard bags that were advertised to fit and I knew going into it there was some risk. They didnt fit & I got hosed on the freight. So I wrote it off, relisted them, and recovered what I could.

Thats what I would recommend for these gents. Relist them, get what you can and move on.

[dardoonk]

This just came up for me. I sold a set of Triumph shocks to a guy who thought they would work on a Guzzi he's restoring. He paid me $40 bucks for nearly new shocks that I have no use for, but I still told him that if they didn't work he'd get his money back.

I thought that was fair. Here at GSR, we're all basically in the same boat when it comes to finding parts for our bikes. All of us appreciate these bikes, but understand the used parts supply continues to dry up and we will need each other even more. Our reasonable and fair treatment for other members will become more and more important. I believe the right thing to do was refund the money. Someone else may end up wanting them now that they've read this thread anyway.

Good Karma will come back to you [-o<

Now then, let's all have a group hug!

[rosco15]

I understand both sides. Both have valid points and I don't see any wrongdoing as there is no indication the cams aren't any good. I think at this point Katman is willing to eat the shipping than Ray isn't out anything and can still make his money out of the cams down the road. I think a comprimise is in order. Refund the cost of the cams and don't do any further business as I think both of you are stand up members of the board.

My 2 cents

[hp1000s]

...mis-understandings on both sides?...yes, wrong-doing on either side?...no. I think both members made their cases clearly, and without malice; which helps to allow the masses to have a pretty clear picture of what happened. Good on everyone! The GSR is a good place.

I understand both sides. Both have valid points and I don't see any wrongdoing as there is no indication the cams aren't any good. I think at this point Katman is willing to eat the shipping than Ray isn't out anything and can still make his money out of the cams down the road. I think a comprimise is in order. Refund the cost of the cams and don't do any further business as I think both of you are stand up members of the board.

My 2 cents

[katman]

Wow.

Personally, I would have just bought the OEM parts and been done with it. Why on earth you would risk putting something into a stock motor that is not stock OEM is beyond me.

You did not do the research. You did not buy OEM, hel l you didn't even buy new?

I originally called Ray on a starter clutch gear. While talking I mentioned the 1150 build. Ray sold me on the gsxr cams saying they were in excellent shape and would bolt in. HE mentioned he could also get G cams so I got him to get me prices on them too. Called the owner of the 1150 and gave him the choices. HE chose the used cams. Sighted the major budget over run on the complete build and he wanted to save money anywhere he could.

I advised him new cams were the way to go but he wanted the used ones. I ended up getting new G cams.

I don't recommend replacing used parts for used parts just so we are clear.

[t3rmin]

In most cases I'd say it's the one who follows advice, not the adviser who bears responsibility. From a strictly logical standpoint, nobody forced Katman to buy the part or heed the advice.

But in business terms, customer satisfaction doesn't necessarily depend on who's right or wrong. It would be difficult to determine whether Ray's advice was correct (especially since it may have worked, but not as long as required), or Katman was being overly cautious. Of course Katman has a responsibility to his customer to be cautious, but that's not Ray's concern.

All things considered I think Ray accepting the part back, giving a refund, and Katman eating the shipping is fair. However, if Katman's modifications to the part lowered its value or rendered it useless, that's a different story.

[katman]

The red line on the left is where the cam ends. Runs on half the journal. Apart from the oil concern, thats not much journal to run on. As you can see the cam doesn't cover the oil jet or the groove to force oil between the cam and the journal. NONE of this was mentioned in our conversation before buying. Either was the machining neccessary for clearences which may have brought the cost of the cams close to new ones. At that time I would have to had to send them out. IF this isn't adequate cause for concern or return I don't know what is. My Point.. If I had known I wouldn't have bought. My fault?? OK you can put it on me. I won't disagree. The buck ultimately stops with me.

I conceed it may be working for Ray but I wasn't willing to take the chance. I don't think I was out of line. We will just have to agree to disagree. The part was good for what it is for. I would buy from Ray again. I would just do my homework first if it is a modification application. I don't have any hard feelings either way.