Pods and jetting questions

[don_gibb6512]

Don,

Thanks for the advice. I have decided to step away at least until tonight. Getting tired of taking the tank on and off over and over.

Yes, they're OEM coils. I put an Accel Supercoil kit on my Kawi GPz and that seemed to help it; many here will tell you its snake oil. I'll check the coils resistance and post updates tonight.

Thanks again - I'm not ready to sell yet. Especially since I haven't ever really ridden the damm thing other than around the block.

I had a set of Accel Supercoils. They went bad within a couple of years and I never once thought the problems I started having could have been related to them because they were still shiny, for crying out loud. I spent too much money and time trying to get similar problems to what you're experiencing figured out until I got so frustrated that instead of just walking away, I tore the bike apart and stashed it in my shed. HUGE mistake. I put the Accel coils on another bike I picked up and couldn't make it around the block twice before it shut off. Just shut right down. That's when I metered the coils and found out they were bad. Boy, did I feel like an idiot for not checking them sooner. I bought a pair of the green Dyna 3ohm coils and a set of Dyna wires and caps and never looked back. Bike runs great. No more worry about weak spark and fouled plugs because of ignition. Yeee-haaa !!!

If you have that GPz, meter those Accel coils and if they're 3ohm, you might as well swap them out just for testing on your Suzi and see if that makes a difference. Couldn't hurt.

Good luck.

Don

[Smokinapankake]

Don,

I rode that GPz for a couple of years then sold it to finance the repair of my 82 Katana 1000. All in all it was one of the best motorcycles I've ever owned and I regret selling it. Never had any problems with the coils, and many of my drag racing buddies swear by them. At the time I bought them the kit was 160 bucks; I see now they're about 185.

In fact, I do have some of the green Dyna coils on my 82 Kat, I may try swapping them over just for kicks....
I'll meter those OEM coils anyway just to see what they read.

Thanks again!

[beachbum3478]

iv had similar symptoms as you with my gs1100. i got the bike without an airbox and i couldnt get to run right at all without the airbox. i put the airbox on and it solved my problem. i have cv carbs. i guess they need a restriction in order to operate the slides propererly. so since you were running without a filter there was no restriction.

[Smokinapankake]

Here's what we have - Primary windings read 4.4 ohms resistance.
Secondaries read: 1&4 - 54.4 2&3 - 36.4. Nothing wrong with my coils, I don't think.
Any other suggestions?

When I get some time I may swap over the Dyna coils I have and see if it makes any difference. I doubt it will.

I would think it would at least fire and run like crap at the very worst.....

[don_gibb6512]

Well, that's one more thing out of the way. Hmmm. Continuity check on all connections. Ground wire checks. Do you still have the clutch engagement switch and side stand cut off switch on the bike? If you do, you might want to temporarily route those so that they're out of the circuit. Make it so that it's as if the stand is always up and the clutch is always pulled in. Yeah, I'm running out of ideas. If the plugs are getting wet with gas, it's either a wrong emulsion mixture (too much gas) or no spark. Is it possible at all that the exhaust would be plugged up? That never occurred to me until now but you mentioned that you've never taken this bike for a ride yet and I'm wondering if something didn't get in there. I know that's a stretch but I'm grasping for anything now.

[Smokinapankake]

Don,

Thanks for the advice but remember I've been able to run it around the block several times. It ran quite well, actually. Then I took the wheels off to have tires mounted and when I reinstalled them thats when the problems began.
Doesn't have a sidestand switch or a clutch engagement switch, either.
I've been through every connection I can find, everything seems to be in order.

My next plan of attack will be to reverify compression. My thinking is thus: If my timing is somehow off, my compression figures will be different than they were before by nature of the valves being in a different position at TDC (more open, maybe?). This would also explain how it sparks but doesn't fire.

Exhaust is bone stock, and breathes ok. I suspect my 2 year old daughter dropped a socket down the right side, but it wouldn't restrict breathing so much as to prevent any combustion, right?

[don_gibb6512]

Compression test was the next thing I was going to suggest too. You may want to try to get that socket out of the exhaust. I wouldn't want it rattling around in there if it was me but that could also block that side. Not sure if that would be enough to keep the bike from running though. I'm sorry man but I'm out of suggestions. Let me know what the compression numbers turn out to be and don't forget to keep the throttle wide open while you crank the engine. I didn't know to do that when I first tested compression and got all bummed out at the low numbers. DOH !!!

[Smokinapankake]

Don,

So my compression numbers were similar but not exactly the same.
140, 135, 135, 135. This could be because the motor was dead cold. I can't get it to start, remember.

But I did find something interesting in my tinkering last night - My plugs all look EXACTLY the same. Black, but not sooty and not really wet. This may come into play later.

Carb bowl #1 is bone dry. I know this because I pulled the drain plug completely out, no gas ****ing out. Bowls 2, 3, 4, all have gas. I know this because as soon as I cracked the drain plug, they get all wet with gas.

So if #1 jug is not getting gas (known fact - no gas in the bowl means no gas in the jug, right?), and plugs 2, 3, 4 all look exactly the same as 1, is it reasonable to assume jugs 2, 3, 4 are also not getting gas from the carb even though the bowls do have gas?

Looks like I'm going to dive into the carbs again to decipher why 1 isn't getting fuel.

[Smokinapankake]

Update

So I pulled the carbs again and went through the main fuel delivery circuit. I pulled the bowls off all 4, stuck them on the bench upside down so the floats would all shut off the needles, then blew through the fuel supply line, lifting the bowls for each carb individually opening the fuel needle. This verified that fuel could flow through the supply lines to each carb.

Then, I hooked up a temp tank, held the carbs above a bucket, and observed the fuel draining out all 4 needles.
Then, I attached the bowls (all 4) and did the same thing, sans the drain bolts. Same result. Gas freely draining out of all 4 holes. So supply to the bowls is not an issue. Checked the idle position and found that the butterfly valves were'nt even open. So I turned the idle screw (between 2 & 3) so it just opened the butterflys maybe a gnat's hair.

Figured what the he!! and reinstalled the whole shebang, minus the fuel tank. Rigged up a temp tank out of a water bottle with a hose in the lid and filled the carbs. Attempted to start the damm thing and could tell there was something wanting to happen. Fired for a second then blew the main fuse. Replaced with another 10 A fuse and after a bit more prodding, it fired up with the assistance of choke. After a few moments, she idled nice and revved quite responsively. All this while holding the temp tank so that the fuel line made a straight shot to the carbs...

So I figure I'm onto something and reinstalled the tank. She fired right up, but would bog immediately on giving it throttle. Again, I checked the fuel line to be sure it wasn't kinked, etc... No kinks, run as straight as possible to the carbs. No inline filter, no uphill runs to stop the flow, nothing.

Thinking that maybe, because my petcock has developed a much worse leak than when I started this whole mess, it isn't delivering as much fuel as it could, I put it on Prime. This should be a straight shot to the carbs, independent of the vacuum diaphragm, fuel delivery much like that in my temp tank.

Fires up, revs up, but has a bit of a stumble at about 4000 RPM. So what the he!!, why not drive it around the block? Runs strong, stumbles at 4K, but no real problems.

The only thing I can think is there were two issues at play here:
1: Idle screw backed off too much, allowing no air through when trying to start, thereby no venturi effect to draw gas into the cylinder.
2: Fuel valve (petcock) leaking, so when vacuum is put on the diaphragm, not enough "pull" to fully open the valve, thereby not allowing enough fuel to flow to the carbs for anything beyond idle.

I have no real idea about the #1 bowl being empty as fuel delivery is assured in all 4 now.

So where can I get a NOS fuel valve? And why can they not be successfully rebuilt? Seems like everyone who has tried has failed.

[TheCafeKid]

So I pulled the carbs again and went through the main fuel delivery circuit. I pulled the bowls off all 4, stuck them on the bench upside down so the floats would all shut off the needles, then blew through the fuel supply line, lifting the bowls for each carb individually opening the fuel needle. This verified that fuel could flow through the supply lines to each carb.

Then, I hooked up a temp tank, held the carbs above a bucket, and observed the fuel draining out all 4 needles.
Then, I attached the bowls (all 4) and did the same thing, sans the drain bolts. Same result. Gas freely draining out of all 4 holes. So supply to the bowls is not an issue. Checked the idle position and found that the butterfly valves were'nt even open. So I turned the idle screw (between 2 & 3) so it just opened the butterflys maybe a gnat's hair.

Figured what the he!! and reinstalled the whole shebang, minus the fuel tank. Rigged up a temp tank out of a water bottle with a hose in the lid and filled the carbs. Attempted to start the damm thing and could tell there was something wanting to happen. Fired for a second then blew the main fuse. Replaced with another 10 A fuse and after a bit more prodding, it fired up with the assistance of choke. After a few moments, she idled nice and revved quite responsively. All this while holding the temp tank so that the fuel line made a straight shot to the carbs...

So I figure I'm onto something and reinstalled the tank. She fired right up, but would bog immediately on giving it throttle. Again, I checked the fuel line to be sure it wasn't kinked, etc... No kinks, run as straight as possible to the carbs. No inline filter, no uphill runs to stop the flow, nothing.

Thinking that maybe, because my petcock has developed a much worse leak than when I started this whole mess, it isn't delivering as much fuel as it could, I put it on Prime. This should be a straight shot to the carbs, independent of the vacuum diaphragm, fuel delivery much like that in my temp tank.

Fires up, revs up, but has a bit of a stumble at about 4000 RPM. So what the he!!, why not drive it around the block? Runs strong, stumbles at 4K, but no real problems.

The only thing I can think is there were two issues at play here:
1: Idle screw backed off too much, allowing no air through when trying to start, thereby no venturi effect to draw gas into the cylinder.
2: Fuel valve (petcock) leaking, so when vacuum is put on the diaphragm, not enough "pull" to fully open the valve, thereby not allowing enough fuel to flow to the carbs for anything beyond idle.

I have no real idea about the #1 bowl being empty as fuel delivery is assured in all 4 now.

So where can I get a NOS fuel valve? And why can they not be successfully rebuilt? Seems like everyone who has tried has failed.

My guess on the rebuild is simply that the parts given to rebuild are generally crap. An NOS petcock can be picked up at the usual suspects, BikeBandit, Z1, BabbittsOnline.com etc. I dunno how much the rebuild kits run, but figure for the cost of buying potentially a couple of them, depending on whether or not you get one of them to work, you can buy an NOS and not bother with it for another 15-20 years.

[doctorgonzo]

Don't think you even want the OEM petcock, they're junk. Z1 has aftermarkets that are supposed to be better. I haven't installed the one I got from them yet. I've been running for 2 months on a bad petcock turned to the prime position (how I got it from the PO). I have an inline plastic shutoff valve (I think for a lawn tractor) installed in the fuel line and I just have to remember to close it when I park the bike.

[don_gibb6512]

Congrats on getting the bike running !! :-D Always nice to hear when that happens. Those compression numbers are really pretty good. I'd be interested in seeing what the numbers were on a hot engine, dry test and a wet test.

I've tried the K&L rebuild kit on an OEM petcock. Waste of time and money. I know some guys out there have good luck with them but I sure as hell didn't. Tried it on two different petcocks with the same result. Different times and brand new rebuild kit each time. I finally bit the bullet and bought a Pingel. Love it. Yes, they're expensive and there's probably the exact same thing available for less but I didn't know that at the time. The Pingel looks really good and is very well made. It's just a simple on-off valve and I agree they're over priced but they work right the first time. If you look at Pingel's website, http://www.pingelonline.com/ you can find the right one for your model. You'll have to measure the mounting holes, center to center, the diameter of the filter opening and if there's any offset to that hole because you'll need an adapter too. You should be able to buy a vacuum operated valve now. I just went with the gravity fed and it doesn't bother me to shut off the valve when I'm done riding.

Excellent job man. Keep us informed on how it goes.

Don

[Smokinapankake]

It's always something simple that I seem to overlook for days or weeks on end. Then, its usually a Eureka! moment and all is well with the world again. We'll see how it goes tonight after the bike has had a chance to get dead cold again. And I still need to jet for the air filters. However, I have some recommendations from the folks at www.katanacentral.co.uk on where to start. After discussing the issue with my good friend and longtime motorcycle mechanic, their suggestions seem to be in line with common sense....

I'm thinking I may put a fuel valve off a Kawasaki GPz because I like the big lever, I think it will fit, and I had a cracked O-ring in my old one and it still sealed up! Plus way cheaper than Pingel.....