MSD ignitions

[first timer]

Any one use a MSD mc-3 ignition? or the MSD coils? I am looking for a ignition system that is a multispark system, something I can't tell if the Dyna 2000 has. Anyone have a side by side spec list of both ignitions?

How about the MSD triggers anyone try those? They look identical to the dyna S system.

http://www.msdpowersports.com/triggers.html

just not sure one will fit on a gs1000.

[Nessism]

Looks interesting. Do you need a MSD box to go along with the "trigger" (signal generators)? Any idea how much they sell for?

[rapidray]

I use Dyna stuff on my dragbikes but I have a friend who has MSD on his Top Gas bike & he is converting to Dyna right now because of a problem with his MSD box & they won't help him with it. I have found MSD's customer service to be lacking but I KNOW the guys at Dynatec & get GREAT customer service from them. Good luck whatever you decide. Ray.

[lecroy]

Any one use a MSD mc-3 ignition? or the MSD coils? I am looking for a ignition system that is a multispark system, something I can't tell if the Dyna 2000 has. Anyone have a side by side spec list of both ignitions?

How about the MSD triggers anyone try those? They look identical to the dyna S system.

http://www.msdpowersports.com/triggers.html

just not sure one will fit on a gs1000.

The MC3 has a violent 2-step. This needs a video to show you how bad it is.

No the Dyna 2000 does not do multi-spark, nor does the 4000.

The MSD trigger is just that, a trigger. The S was an ignition that would get used for a trigger from time to time.

The MCx can use an S for a trigger. They can also use the SP4000 trigger. You do need to use a single magnet rotor where the SP4000 requires the dual magnet one. Not sure about the 2000.

The MSDs I have looked at have a flaw in the design that can cause them to become damaged when used within their specified operating voltage. Read my post on powersports.

Both the MCx and the 4000 are potted. There are no repairs (unless your one crazy azz SOB with a blow torch).

I have never used a 2000 but have a lot of experience with the 4000. 4000 is not feature rich but is a rock solid design. Service at Dyna anymore is not so great. If you ever have to deal with Raymond you may get a chance to find out. Service at MSD is about the same. Both cases, your on your own.

I have used the MC4 and its a very nice product when it works. 2step is smooth and it has timing control features second to none. The software interface is very easy to use. I like that it does not have all the knobs and display to get damaged like the Schintz units.

I have never had a coil fail except for the Dyna dual ones. They crack at the mounting tab so you need to be carefull on how you mount them. I have seen this three times now.

I have used the old MSD coils with no problems ever and am trying some of their new small twin towers. These look like a nice part. Smaller, lighter and seem to not break down like I see with the older ones with the tower inserts and silicone.

One of my MC4s in action, crank up the sound......

Testing the MC-4 with a PC

Here you can hear how smooth the MC4 is on the 2step.
Testing the Rajay E/F 0.40AR turbocharger

And what ignition did I buy for that POS junk bike I am putting together?

With all of the great things about the Schnitz units and reliable as the SP4000 have been for us and all of the problems I have had with the MC4 and MSD service, its getting a roudy red box.

Choice was based on I have no experince with the ARC and while I would like to try it, I see it as a risk. Even with all the great things I have heard about Schnitz, their warrenty is very short compared to the others and when I asked a few dealers I was told they had a higher failure rate. Schnitz service is great I hear. Would liked to have tried one and may have switched if I could have gotten my hands on a demo unit. I have had good and bad luck with the MC4. The first MC4 I owned was rock solid until I blew it up with a charger. The second one still has a quirk I'm sorting out. The MC1&2 I had were rock solid.

Why do you need multi-spark? If you want Dyna, why are you not looking at their new ARC system if you need this feature? If you try an ARC, please post your findings.

Post a picture some time of that badazz machine of yours!! Always like to see what people are racing.

[first timer]

Well the bike is being built right now just got the head back from the porters, need to pull the bottom half apart to send the crank to stan.

basically i am building a gs1000 yosh replica bike that i'll use on the street and the track road/maybe drag once in a while.

the head is at about a 1.5 stage but easy to go up to a stg 3 with bigger cams and valves. I am going to run stock size valves for now trying to find some SS if anyone has a cheap lead. My tuner is recomending stock valves for street use. Going to put in a 1085 yosh piston kit (CR11.3:1) and a web 110 grind cam. I still need to sort out the clutch.

I was asking about the MSD because my tuner/porter really likes the MSD over the dyna and has worked the ports to take advantage of the multi spark.

I am still learn as i go so pardon me if what i say doesn't make sence, i am still tring to rember everything i have learn and it isn't easier either because everyone has an opinion too.

I don't really under stand what you mean by 2 step, I assume it is used in drag racing, and allows you to hold the bike at 2 differant pre set rpms. Could you explain in a little more detail what you mean by violent 2 step.

I see the mc-4 but is that over kill? it is only 60 more bucks but do i need all the extra stuff?

The big thing i want out of the ignition is rev limiter which i think the MSD has as does the dyna.


I already have a old dyna 3 trigger which is the same as the dyna s trigger so i might just use that to save a few bucks. But I will probably use the mini twins from MSD as well just so i can keep it in all the same family.

you can see the bike in my signature, it's before i pulled the motor apart.

lecroy, you have a link to your post at powersports?



-Ryan

[Old Colt]

I have not looked at the MSD site in quite a few years. Looks like a few new products. I especially like the SB6 programmable ignition for the Busa. I have a turbo Busa engine in a car and would like something better than the Power Commander.
But the Power Commander seams to be reliable once the wiring harness was changed.
I quit using MSD components many years ago. I make my living modifying things and am very good with electrical systems and when the MSD service comes out first and says " Oh you wired it wrong". They heard a full explanation just what was wrong in detail. They covered it and I have never looked at using any of there products since.
I have yet to see an MSD product not fail and for the few applications I have them installed in I carry spares.
For drag racing MSD products may not be bad, you are never very far from your support vehicle.
So granted I see the SB6 ignition but I will probably use a MegaSquirt on this one.

[lecroy]

I have no idea what porting for the multi-spark would be. Ask them to give you details on this.

IMO, for a low compression street bike like your building, I would use the 2000.

[first timer]

I was thinking more about it, and i think i got my stuff mixed up, I think the resone he likes the MSD was because with the multi spark you get . more of your fuel burned, it's like running a dual plug head but not having the extra protructions of a second plug to interfer with flame spread. You get a more efficient burn. He has ported my head to take advantage of sonic ram principals which basically loads the fuel air charge up against the valve while the valve is still closed allowing even more fuel and air to be dumped in then on a regular intake stroke.

I trust the guy who did the porting he has a few NHRA Wallies and is a one man team.

So back to the violent 2 step, can you shed a little more light on it?

[lecroy]

Interesting thoughts...

"I don't really under stand what you mean by 2 step, I assume it is used in drag racing, and allows you to hold the bike at 2 differant pre set rpms. Could you explain in a little more detail what you mean by violent 2 step."

You have it right, it governs the engine speed. I won't get into why. From my video, you can hear that the MC-4 is pretty smooth on the 2 step. To show you just how violent the 3 was, I would need a video of it in action. It's still sitting in a box somewhere. This should not be a concern for you.



Sounds like you have your heart set on the MSD. I won't attempt to combat your ideas about it. Just a few things you may want to consider before going this route that may save your some time.

1) It's not made for a street bike. I have ran tests on mine running them for hours at a time but with good air flow. They get hot! I have no idea what the MTBF is for the MC3 but I think you were handed some very good advice. Keep a spare!!

2) High energy spark is not free. That power comes from somewhere. Make sure your battery, generator and wiring are up to the task. A drag bike is not normally a problem as it may only run for a minute between charges.

3) It's larger than stock so you need to find a place to mount it where it will get good air flow.

4) With all that high energy switching, I have found them to produce a tad bit of noise. I have been able to solve all of the interference problems, except one....

5) They had a problem with their plug wires for a while and they would arc at the boots. The boots split. I hear this has been solved now. Inspect the wires and boots before and after you install them. Let the bike idle in the dark and look for sparks.

Good luck with the rebuild. Looks like a nice bike.

[first timer]

thanks for the tips, Yeah i think i have comitted to the MSD, I'm putting my faith into my tuner, since he made his mods to things based on assumed systems that would be used. I am sure you know what you are doing but i might just have to go to the school of hard knocks on this one.

I do plan to locate it some where open, as you can see i have a lot of open space under my seat open to direct air flow. That was one thing my tuner said, they are a good system if you can keep them cool.

I was planing on using a new stator and reg/rec with the bike, the only other draw i would have is the head light and turn siganls and dash, and some of that stuff can be turned to LED to save on juice as well. I will have to bust out the volt meter to check to make sure i am not over drawing.

I do have a old dyna 3 I can carry with me on long trip encase i have problems.

So in your opinion is it worth going to a mc4 for 60 bucks more? or is that just over kill?

When all said and done, I am hoping to put out around 120 at the tire.

Another gs1000 bike i know of that my guy tuned running a lower cr (10.5) but bigger cams and valves and a dyna S was pushing about 145 until the clutch starting slipping.

[lecroy]

Some entertaining reads...

http://www.tamboon.com.au/economy/Better%20Fuel%20Economy.html

http://kikerperformance.com/howtheywork.htm

This is a good one....

http://www.peony888.com/VS/sobogus.htm

[lecroy]

More funny ignition info...

When I first joined this site I had asked an ignition question to the forums for fun. This came about from when I was a kid riding my 2 strokes with the 2 plug heads. They would foul plugs frequently.

The question was about having a dead cylinder and pulling the plug wire off to make the cylinder fire. No one came up with an answer. I tried a search and here a person has givin the right answer.


"Fouled Spark Plug:
The ignition coil produces only as much voltage as necessary to overcome the resistance of the wires and to jump the gap on the spark plug. An easy way to see if a miss is caused by a fouled plug is to force the coil to build up a higher voltage before discharging. This can be done by simply removing the plug wire and holding it some distance from the plug. A quarter inch or so is OK. In many cases, the hotter spark will allow even a badly fouled plug to fire thereby pinpointing the problem. To prevent a dangerous or even deadly shock, use a single jumper cable. Attach one end to the negative battery terminal of the vehicle and use the clamp on the other end to remove the plug wire. Work carefully to avoid damaging plug wires and boots. Any stray high voltage will be harmlessly directed to the vehicle
ground and prevent you from getting zapped. "

I used this method many times to get back home after a long day of riding. I remember there was an ad in Easy Riders that had a part you would insert into the plug wires to make this gap. I think they may have even been gas filled to give some added colors. I am sure they radiated to high heven.

[Old Colt]

It is interesting to find how few people know to pull back the plug wires to clear loaded cylinders. I learned about it around 10 years ago after moving up here to snowmobile country. I use it with the race cars I build and maintain, when just moving them around the yard they never get a chance to warm up and routinely load plugs so I have learned to pull back the plug wires when I have customers cars, then after the car is back on there trailer I push the wires back up tight on the plugs. All is good, I can run the engines in the short times I need to and do not trash a set of plugs anymore. We used to change plugs after the events and run cheap hot plugs till the engine is warmed and ready to go on track again. Saves a bit of work by just backing off the wires.

[Suzuki_Don]

It is interesting to find how few people know to pull back the plug wires to clear loaded cylinders. I learned about it around 10 years ago after moving up here to snowmobile country. I use it with the race cars I build and maintain, when just moving them around the yard they never get a chance to warm up and routinely load plugs so I have learned to pull back the plug wires when I have customers cars, then after the car is back on there trailer I push the wires back up tight on the plugs. All is good, I can run the engines in the short times I need to and do not trash a set of plugs anymore. We used to change plugs after the events and run cheap hot plugs till the engine is warmed and ready to go on track again. Saves a bit of work by just backing off the wires.

What do you mean by backing off the wires. Could you give a detailed explanation please. And how do you do it while driving the vehicle.
Thanks.

[Old Colt]

You pull them back off the plugs till the wire terminals just barely make contact with the plug. A little gap is desired. Only friction of the boots is holding the wires in place. This is an un-scientific way to raise the voltage at the plugs to reduce the chance of fouling. It puts a fairly high load on the ignition components so it is not used for long running.
This should not be needed once an engine is warmed and driving.