1977 gs 750, track days

[moderntechnician]

Let me premise this by saying I am not trying to act know-it-all or superior to anyone. So please don’t take anything the wrong way!

Are you talking about Track Days at the new track (Sandia) or a track like A.S.R. (Arroyo) or the old Bottomless Lakes track? (I’m betting Sandia.) Anyway I had heard it was only an oval (or a couple of ovals...) Pleased to hear that it’s got a twisty!!!!!!!

The key with racing motorcycles was balancing all of your monkeys. Stresses on the bike and your body were phenomenal, the guy who won the race was the one that broke late and rode as out of control as he could, understood his machine (a DNF doesn’t garner you anything) and made no mistakes.

A 4 cylinder Suzuki GS or Kawasaki KZ should hold up to anything you give it, but I wouldn’t take my street bike unless I was really prepared for some heartache.

I’d have to say I am pleased to hear that the vintage class halts at 1980. It wouldn’t be the same if GSXRs, Ninjas and Interceptors ruled the roost. Of course I say that with a stripped GSXR sitting behind the little house! (By the way what about the two strokes?)

Back when I raced you hung out at the Dunlop trailer or the factory boys after a race to get slicks for free. When it rained you cut your slicks by hand. You’d ride with a tranny that was going out or cracked rear sets. You’d bend your Bassani for clearance, a Vance and Hines didn’t do a thing (‘xcept drop weight) unless you modified the intake or better yet took advantage of better lift and duration. Smoothbores took a stutter at the heavy cross winds on a South Western track. And Bates Leathers weren’t pretty! You spent a ton of time safety wiring the thing up or tearing down a box stock after a race to prove you didn’t have any disallowed mods. You were REAL nice to the track stewards and organizers. And you knew in your gut when a guy had you outclassed and no matter where you were, you took the inside posture and let him pass. Did I mention you occasionally dined on hay? You didn’t sleep on a feather bed, but your engine did. You’d buy, trade, beg track time like it was gold (it was.) Foot pegs got really warm and power slides tore up the NFGs. Your air cooled bike was a totally different beast at the end of a main than she was at the beginning. You’d listen patiently as some kid would relate how he WOULD race but his two stroke needed a good carb’ cleaning. Going to work on Monday for a fellow RD racer who was a new father and had crashed that weekend. Laguna Seca on a light summer rain, enough said. And the pure joy when you realized if you rolled on enough power the bike had a tendency straighten itself up and when in a death wobble you could let go of the bars and the bike knew what to do! (Randy Mamola did it the hard way.)

I retired from racing because the wife insisted, not because it was the end of the road.

I would encourage others to try it out, is Keith Code still in the Super Bike School business? (Was it Willow Springs that he owned when he was on pipe?) Tha was so long ago!

I am ashamed to say that I do not know any of the current crop of racers; my day had John Surtees, Mike Baldwin, Eddie Lawson, Randy Mamola, Jimmy Adamo, the King and of course Mike the Bike! Speaking of Mike Hailwood why doesn’t any one mention the Dunstall/Suzuki GS1000 superbike??? (http://www.woodgate.org/dunstall/images/gs1000cs.jpg) You’d think this group would have been all over that one!

Hey does anyone remember the guy that used to race at P.I.R. with the Eagle Globe and Anchor on his tail section, er’ the bikes’ tail section that is...

I wonder whatever happened to that guy!

Any way, may you know the joy of the wind at your back, the thrilling beauty of an open rode lead and the blessings of all of us that have gone before you!

Thanks for giving the old guy a chance to ramble on. And as my Ex-wife used to say, ‘Don’t pay any attention to him, he is odd!’

[doug g]

Let me premise this by saying I am not trying to act know-it-all or superior to anyone. So please don’t take anything the wrong way!

Are you talking about Track Days at the new track (Sandia) or a track like A.S.R. (Arroyo) or the old Bottomless Lakes track? (I’m betting Sandia.) Anyway I had heard it was only an oval (or a couple of ovals...) Pleased to hear that it’s got a twisty!!!!!!!

The key with racing motorcycles was balancing all of your monkeys. Stresses on the bike and your body were phenomenal, the guy who won the race was the one that broke late and rode as out of control as he could, understood his machine (a DNF doesn’t garner you anything) and made no mistakes.

A 4 cylinder Suzuki GS or Kawasaki KZ should hold up to anything you give it, but I wouldn’t take my street bike unless I was really prepared for some heartache.

I’d have to say I am pleased to hear that the vintage class halts at 1980. It wouldn’t be the same if GSXRs, Ninjas and Interceptors ruled the roost. Of course I say that with a stripped GSXR sitting behind the little house! (By the way what about the two strokes?)

Back when I raced you hung out at the Dunlop trailer or the factory boys after a race to get slicks for free. When it rained you cut your slicks by hand. You’d ride with a tranny that was going out or cracked rear sets. You’d bend your Bassani for clearance, a Vance and Hines didn’t do a thing (‘xcept drop weight) unless you modified the intake or better yet took advantage of better lift and duration. Smoothbores took a stutter at the heavy cross winds on a South Western track. And Bates Leathers weren’t pretty! You spent a ton of time safety wiring the thing up or tearing down a box stock after a race to prove you didn’t have any disallowed mods. You were REAL nice to the track stewards and organizers. And you knew in your gut when a guy had you outclassed and no matter where you were, you took the inside posture and let him pass. Did I mention you occasionally dined on hay? You didn’t sleep on a feather bed, but your engine did. You’d buy, trade, beg track time like it was gold (it was.) Foot pegs got really warm and power slides tore up the NFGs. Your air cooled bike was a totally different beast at the end of a main than she was at the beginning. You’d listen patiently as some kid would relate how he WOULD race but his two stroke needed a good carb’ cleaning. Going to work on Monday for a fellow RD racer who was a new father and had crashed that weekend. Laguna Seca on a light summer rain, enough said. And the pure joy when you realized if you rolled on enough power the bike had a tendency straighten itself up and when in a death wobble you could let go of the bars and the bike knew what to do! (Randy Mamola did it the hard way.)

I retired from racing because the wife insisted, not because it was the end of the road.

I would encourage others to try it out, is Keith Code still in the Super Bike School business? (Was it Willow Springs that he owned when he was on pipe?) Tha was so long ago!

I am ashamed to say that I do not know any of the current crop of racers; my day had John Surtees, Mike Baldwin, Eddie Lawson, Randy Mamola, Jimmy Adamo, the King and of course Mike the Bike! Speaking of Mike Hailwood why doesn’t any one mention the Dunstall/Suzuki GS1000 superbike??? (http://www.woodgate.org/dunstall/images/gs1000cs.jpg) You’d think this group would have been all over that one!

Hey does anyone remember the guy that used to race at P.I.R. with the Eagle Globe and Anchor on his tail section, er’ the bikes’ tail section that is...

I wonder whatever happened to that guy!

Any way, may you know the joy of the wind at your back, the thrilling beauty of an open rode lead and the blessings of all of us that have gone before you!

Thanks for giving the old guy a chance to ramble on. And as my Ex-wife used to say, ‘Don’t pay any attention to him, he is odd!’

good stuff here. i am a huge fan of vintage racing and I wish more would participate. I took my 750E to the track last year and had a blast riding it (granted it was nothing compared to my FZR400RRSP I had at the time). I did realize that you had to take much different lines & brake much earlier. they just opened a track in Millville NJ and I am hoping that WERA or AHRMA start using the track for vintage motorcycle racing. If so you better believe that I will be assembling a vintage GS for racing.

[triffecpa]

yes, Sandia has a road race course that encompasses part of the main oval (it's turn one on the RR track). AHRMA has raced here for the last several years on its west coast swing (usually in Sept).

the local club (www.smri-racing.org) has a pretty active vintage contingent.

We run "Historic Vintage" which is '78 and older with limited mods and then "SuperVintage" which goes to '82 and has basically unlimited mods. Historic Vintage has a LW, MW and HW class.

I have since sold the GS and currently race a CB750 Honda in HV HW.

We have a little mini-series with the folks in Phoenix and go there twice a year (Feb and Nov) and then they come over to ABQ in Jul and Aug. In fact we're going to Firebird Main track tomorrow.

Come on out if anyone is in the area. Saturday is a Trackday and Sunday we'll have two vintage races.

Tracy

[bwringer]

I note that the OP seems to have vanished...

Oh well, it was a pretty good question and there's lots of good info here.

[moderntechnician]

triffecpa

Yes that is how most people handled the road racing requirement back in my day also.

Lots of classes, lots of sub-divisions, they way I always liked it. Short Quals, short Mains give everyone a chance to sit at the table (or in this case to taste the flavor of racing!)

Super Vintage huh, I imagine the ’82 GS1100’s and GPz’s must make that class interesting!

Hey any one remember BOTT?

Really, I have kids (and grand kids) now so I don’t spend the money on myself. Otherwise I would go back to racing. I imagine the camaraderie is still there as is the thrill!

The reason we liked Bassani’s were because they were tunable and you could pack them for whatever intake mods or new cams you could get. We’d do the same with RD pipes basing the mods on what some racers had trial-and-errored into a success. (Of course you had to love getting two stroke goo all over you, yum!) In my day the Vance and Hines wasn’t repackable, or at least repackable for performance, has that changed? Also we'd heat them and bend them up and out of the way, hey if it looked good it probably didn't perform...


(Oh, I posted some race and performance bike pics in my albums, hope you all enjoy them (they are of course ancient stuff.))

Any way be good to each other, thanks for this thread, and may God Bless!

(Can you believe someone actually listened to the dinosaur (me) and enjoyed his post! Nothing good can possibly come of that!)

[moderntechnician]

Of I forgot! Yes I raced a CB900F for a while; we had to race it in Open Class because Super Bike was set to a 750cc limit. It was a giant killer, my buddy wanted to sandwich a CB1100 engine into it but it was already a bored and stroked 750 and it was about perfect as was, so I convinced him to let it be. (They are best when left unfaired and the fork is braced...)

[Old Colt]

Hey any one remember BOTT?

Ohh yah! I am a Ducati guy too, the old bevel ones of that day.
We were trying to get a thumper class going with Florida Grand Prix Assn at the time too. Couldn't get enough interest with all the small singles already running. Syd's had a dozen at the track it seems. No one went for big singles there.

[npntransistor]

well

I understand she is an old girl. my intent was to get involved with vintage motorcycle racing. the local race classes that i talked to incoruged me to come out for a track day and then talk about the school. i told them all of my intrest in the vintage world and the equipment i would be running. he said no problamo can do. i understand that the bike isnt going to set any land speed records, but i think racing among other bikes of the same time would be awsome, i have pushed the bike harder on the street then i probably should have, and am very comfortable with its limits and mine. Idont exspect to set any records but go out, be safe, and have fun.

[moderntechnician]

Old Colt

I raced a Desmo 450 single, but could not possibly afford a Ducatti twin of that era!!! (With riders like Mike Hailwood and later Mamola they ended up not needing me! Being wildly satirical, here! Even HD had Springsteen for Battle of the Twins. Isn't that three to draw to!!!?)

I only got to test drive a Darmah and Pantah, in heaven for a few minutes but then back to reality. Even now you have to retro-fit Yamaha stuff for them... Loved them with a passion though! And they got even better! (I have a line on a Scrambler that I am dying to make into a project!!!) I could probably afford a Monza replica, but in my mind I'd like to see it look like this attached picture of the legendary racer. Be difficult to simulate the twin plug heads though, but that might even be fun trying. (I have an '83 GPz 1100 that has been converted from injectors to carbs that has two plugs per cylinder, runs better on race fuel but we didn't go nuts on the compression. I am ashamed to say it sits degrading behind the little house. Long story.)

I did ok on the R100S in BOTT, but not as well as the first Superbike campaigns. The handwriting was on the wall though and they were bound and determined to make Superbike a works race. (They'd send Spencer to Phoenix for the small races!)

The two strokes and Box stock 550's were all that was left for us really, and we flogged those bikes!

I wanted to race the Triumph in BOTT but never got up the nerve to race prep her. (Who could treat Bonny that way in 1982 any way?)

Thanks for letting me ramble!

[Old Colt]

82 was my last year of racing. I had injured my back in a diving incident off a 3 meter board and was a bit afraid of taking a tumble. I was also moving back to Conn and as nice as the old Bryer Motorsport track was I old went out to do laps. I actually did more laps with my Ducati than my Suzukis after that.

The twinplug heads are no problem, the second plug sets right in front of the shaft.
You have a fair amount of Ducati activity down your way. Tom Rolland and a few others are quite busy down there. Mostly twins.
I had an R100RS Motorsport before my Ducati. Even though I work subcontract for the nations largest BMW motorcycle dealer I still prefer Ducs.
The closest I can get to that pic will be with my X6 Suzi. Defiantly no thump from it.

I bought two antique aircraft down in Tuscon many years ago, a 1929 Waco taper wing and a 39 Spartan Executive. Flew the Spartan home. Fun job at the time.

[Headphase]

I hate these track day threads....

'cause I start thinkin' and lookin' at ebay and findin' cheap track/race bikes....
Ready to go stuff, not so expensive and I have a trailer and I have leathers and gear and I've always wanted to race a road bike and, and, and, and...

Ahhhh....

And I'm 52 and don't bounce like I use to....

Arrgghh

AMEN!
I get the same ideas, every autumn winter. I'm 50 next month (how did that happen?) and I swing between feeling capable of anything and feeling like an old has been)
Few years ago I went and did enduro (hare and hounds), that was a right laugh, but I fancy taking a gs onto a track, what really holds me back is the thought of maybe being a mobile chicane.

[moderntechnician]

Old Colt

Ducatis = one of the few cases where Phoenix is a much better Resource, enough said.

Ah, I know New Hampshire International in Loudon! I used to live in Colchester (& Uncasville) before the war. After getting wounded I got some basket leave and the folks back home treated me like I was a total monster while my Cousin Richard who split for Canada (and apparently left behind the practice of bathing,) was treated like a conquering hero.

Any way my close buddy Mr. Congdon who owned Congdon Farms Dairy let me work in exchange for a BSA Goldstar, which to me was the greatest adventure in the history of the universe!!! I got it at twelve and went tear-assing around Connecticut and Massachusetts until I literally ran the tank dry. (The dairy farmers all knew Mr. Congdon and no matter where I’d end up they’d always come and pick me and the bike up and drop me back at Congdon Farms!) The cops all got to know me and back then they were all Irish (one side of my family) or French (The other side) so I ALWAYS got out of a ticket or a lecture! That couldn’t happen today. I was a good kid though (alter boy) and hours at the dairy were really LONG, so they turned the other cheek!

I’d make Loudon (or Connecticut Dragway) every now and then and either try and get in on a truck that was pitting or make a gift of a bottle of Canadian Club to gain entry. I think they got a charge out of watching me trying to start that mule kicking Goldstar!

(You know now a days when they go riding motorcycles over a train track, they don’t have to stop and go back for a headlight or a bolt or two!!! Now that just CAN’T be right!!! It’s like that Telephone thing, it’ll never catch on!)

You are suggesting I cut a sparkplug and JB weld it in place aren’t you! (I like you!)

Yum an X6! I always loved the T20’s, that 250 Ducati was a single and handled the 250 Suzi’s!

I studied Aerospace here at the University of Arizona most of the old gang work at Garret or Hamilton Aviation and volunteer at Pima Aerospace restoring the old aircraft. I live right up the street from the bone yards! (Name an Infantryman that doesn’t fall in love with Aircraft!)

<Ramble Alert>
I pass old RB57’s that are parked at the Civilian scrap yard on Wilmot daily. During the war they’d start the mostly black RB57s with black powder charges and they wouldn’t tell the Marines doing extra duty at Đà Nẵng anything about it. So late night, black ops, dark figures hovering over the aircraft in it’s sand bag revetment, then the report from the Canberra’s engine nacelle with a flash and smoking explosion, you’d kind’a have to forgive an uninformed Marine Lance Corporal for thinking sabotage and hosing the area with 5.56mm ball ammo, and then um .45 Caliber ball ammo! Right! Cummon, there was a war going on! (Don’t let any one kid you, those AF boys can really move when they have too!)

Nobody got a scratch, but they were going to charge the guy with the cost of the Canberra! In the end they took pity on him! Whew, I sure am glad that wasn’t me! Ahem...
<OK end of Ramble Alert>

Love the Waco Bi-plane!!! They paid you for flying that cross country huh!

OK, I’m shutting up now!

[Old Colt]

That read has put a smile on my face. Yah the world has changed. Nam was not a good thing, but then not as severe on the world as this Bushwacker era.
Pima was a nice visit, but seeing Connis lined up for the chopper has left big tears in my eyes. That kind of dates when I was last there.
Casa Grande was a nice get together.

The old days in Connecticut, I needed to get some top speed testing in a car, we are talking 160+. The police were the ones suggesting which roads to use. Those days are gone.

[80GS1000]

My previous comments were cautionary based on the fact that I've seen far too many guys show up to trackdays on their beloved street bikes and then wad it up in some corner and leave dejected and heartbroken. Case in point - a guy at a trackday I attended had a trick 80s era Moto Guzzi which he managed to lowside after tucking the front in a corner at around 60 MPH. When the bike hit the gravel trap, it flipped several times before coming to rest, tweaking the frame and denting his tank. As you can imagine, the guy was ****ed with a capital P. Parts for that bike are likely hard to come by the same way they are for a GS. A wise racer once told me to never take a bike to the track that you aren't prepared to take home in boxes. Sh!t happens, especially when you're riding at a pace far faster than you could sanely ride on the street. A prepped trackbike avoids this scenario as your street bike is safe at home in the garage.

The trackday environment is many times more demanding on the bike than the street as you're running the bike at or near its performance limits for extended periods of time. If you do decide to take your GS to the track, get the best brake pads, suspension components, and tires you can afford. Now would be a good time to get some stainless braided lines if you don't have them already. Go over the bike carefully with a torque wrench and a bottle of blue loctite where appropriate. You don't want to find out that some important pinch bolt isn't torqued correctly or has come loose while knee-down at 100+ MPH. Set your tire pressures a few pounds lower than you'd ride on the street (talk to trackside tire vendors for appropriate values) and check them before every track session. Add a bit of slack to your chain as you'll be using a lot more suspension travel than you use on the street. If you feel the rear tire start to step out when on the gas coming out of a corner, DO NOT chop the throttle as you'll likely highside. Back off the throttle just a touch and the rear will most likely step back in line with the front or you'll lowside, both of which are better than hitting the ejection seat.

[Sandy]

My previous comments were cautionary based on the fact that I've seen far too many guys show up to trackdays on their beloved street bikes and then wad it up in some corner and leave dejected and heartbroken.

Exactly, don't take anything out on a track whether it be track days or full on racing that you're not prepared to have wadded up and turned to a pile of scrap. Especially with a slower bike that can't keep pace. If you're going to use the 750 just mod the suspension first and get used to riding it. Getting around the track is all about changing speed and direction and the brakes and cornering abilities far out weigh anything that's going happen with the throttle whether you mod the engine or not. Decent tires, some good shocks/springs, update the brake pads and figure out how to get it around the track.