1st Gen GSXR upgrade for GS1100ED

[Sunburn]

Sorry if all that sounds a little negitive but i really do wish you'd asked before getting so far into it, tone

I wonder how this sounded before the edit

[tone]

I wonder how this sounded before the edit

The edit was for spelling only

[Sunburn]

The edit was for spelling only

Oh, well it was a good post but that last sentence made you sound really pompous. I would have went a little deeper then the spelling on that last edit.

[tone]

Oh, well it was a good post but that last sentence made you sound really pompous. I would have went a little deeper then the spelling on that last edit.

Oh well sorry about that mate ive spent to much time working on bikes & not enough time worrying about my spelling or how stuff i write comes across, appologies to anyone ive offended

tone

[posplayr]

Tone

Tone,
I was responding to this thread last Sat and just as I submitted the reply the site DSN problem came up and I lost my entire reply. Oh well here it is a week later so I'm starting the post all over.

I'm a little confused as to which front end you are using here tbh but i'm guessing its the early gix one if so i cant see why you didnt just stuff the whole lot in including yokes, much easier

I have a pair of 87 GSXR 1100 forks. I also have a set of 86 GSXR 1100 forks but they will have to be drilled to accept the 17mm axles. Both are virtually identical save for the axle bolt sizes.

87 /88 forks are not first generation gsxr

Don't understand this comment. From hanging out at Gixxer.com , Oldschool as well as here the 85-87 GSXR 750's and 86-88 GSXR 1100 are Gen 1 Slabsides. The later GSXR which are not water cooled are considered Gen 2 (87-91 GSXR 750 and 88-92 GSXR 1100).

RE- drilling the stock gix top yoke, its not a problem as all you need to do is weld in a couple of ally triangles then drill exactly where you want for the risers, plenty strong & safe enough

Since I'm going to be welding anyway and need to solve the clock mount and key mount problem as well, I figured to give it the stock look. The main point that I would like to draw out is that just drilling and bolting on risers with these early GSXR triple tops is not a good idea as they are rather thin (1/4" perhaps).

For those that don't know, these pics show the difference in steering stops for a 1st Gen GSXR compared to a 80-83 GS.




Here is how I'm going to weld the gage mount to the front of the GSXR upper triple. I had to grind away the original ignition switch bolt bosses.

Lastly ive never liked drilling & bolting the bottom yoke for lockstops as the position of the holes needed is quite close to the edge in most cases & a good hard bang can stress crack the yoke, i suppose welding bits in as above would help but imo its far better to re-weld new lockstops onto the frame to suit

Looking to do steering stops that do not require welding the frame. Some people would also like to know how to do the modification and not have to strip down the frame to weld stops to it. Katman had done some nice beefy lower yoke stops that are probably as strong if not stronger than anything you can weld on to the steering tube.

Sorry if all that sounds a little negitive but i really do wish you'd asked before getting so far into it, tone

You contributions to the site have not gone unnoticed (by me at least). I have read many if not all of your posts during GSXR conversion searches here. In fact I have been trying you approach for "straight edge" wheel alignment that you outlined in a recent post. In addition I have been talking to Katman (Rob) for a few months about different approaches. And recently in great detail about Bandit swing arm alignment. Further, I bought what I thought was a 1st Gen GSXR conversion already installed on a GS1100E as a starting point. So while I did not direct any questions to you specifically, I did not just jump into this blind either.

I have been going through this methodically and will document the key elements of what I go through. I do happen to have many of the parts for 2nd generation 17" wheels and USD forks so I can contrast the 1st gen approach to 2nd gen.

As it turns out the package conversion I bought was basically a botched job and none of the real issues in the conversion had been dealt with properly. So the bottom line is I have been going through this process with a fine tooth comb (working with Rob) to figure out what is relevant practically as well as mathematically in terms of alignments (wheel, swing arm, and counter shaft sprocket), trying to minimize changes to the stock frame and to make the conversion appear relatively stock.

What prompted me to post this thread was that I was running into a concern on how to do the the steering stops. I come to expect that I will get many inputs on how to do any question asked at GSR. I don't take it for granted and appreciate your expert inputs on the subject of stops as well as the whole conversion. I try to give back by laying out the step by step of what I have learned. And having gone through the process, I'm detailing out the not so obvious elements "gotcha"s that the experts gloss over because they assume the newbie already knows.

I have some more spacers coming from Katman, but did receive my Bandit rear axle and chain guard so I'm pretty close to mounting the swinger on my red ED to check the wheel/chain alignments. I also found a great local welder so plan to get the triple and other aluminum bits welded next week.

Thanks for you inputs. And anybody else feel free.

Pos

[jwhelan65]

OK I have been a little under the radar on my plans for the GS1100ED and since Ray asked, I decided to start a new thread and post a few pics.

So for point of reference, here is my fleet and the garage space I'm trying to work in. I'm not NEAR as organized as jwhelan65



OK so an quick overview of this phase of the project. After much hemming and hawing and research here and looking at other projects and getting an 86 GSXR with 91 GSXR 17" conversion I finally decided to go with a moderate and more subtle upgrade for the ED and go with a 1st Gen Gixxer conversion . It started using the 87 wheels but I got a set of 88 (3 spokes) and so that is where I'm heading now.

Pros/Cons:
* I don't get the fatty 180/55-17 rear I settle for a 160-60-18
* no USD forks but the 1st Gen forks are 41 mm (v.s. 37 stock) the axles are 17 mm v.s. 15 mm stock (although not 20 mm as the ) Slingshot forks (50mm upper and 41 mm lower).
* I get upgraded radials and wider rubber
* I get upgraded brakes (two pot vs single pot on 310 mm rotors v.s. 280 mm)
* forks will look stock to the uninitiated
* wheels will not but they will look like 2nd GEn wheels albeit 18" v.s. 17"
* Not as much chain and wheel clearance issues
* reduced offset on he counter sprocket (3/8" v.s. 5/8")
* improved ground clearance (18" v.s. 17" conversion)
* The reduced squeeze is paying off in that I was able to get the to retain the stock brake master without relocation or having to use rear sets.

Overview summary of the parts

* 88 GSXR 3 spoke wheels (front/rear)
* 87-88 forks with stock triple, fork brace
* modified top triple for handle bar risers, Gage mounts and steering stops (looking for a welder for DIY)
* Katman modified Bandit arm and spacers
* Modified rear brake pivot so I don't have to relocate the brake master.
* 530 gear conversion with 3/8 offset sprocket
* Thinking about doing bracing

Here is a pic doing alignment measurements to determine rear spacers ; been working closely with Katman on that. The 88 18"x4.5" wheels are unique somewhat different to the 17"x5.5"



Here is the modified rear brake pivot knuckle. I cut off the little arms and rewelded them about 5 mm each to provide clearance for both the rear brake plunger rod and the return springs between the frame and the bandit swinger. A 4.5 mm offset to the Bandit arm is required to accomplish this. No other spacers behind the master are required. Basically this allows me to keep the stock pegs, rear brake pedal and master cylinder and no welding on the frame. Here is the finished modified part:




And here is the final clearance achieved.




Continued

Gotta love that garage Jim! you look busy!

[750INMASS]

Looks great, thanks for sharing. I am in the middle of a similar project grafting an 86' GSXR750 suspension to a 73' GT750. I ran into the same problem with the gauges & did the same thing but drilled & tapped the GSXR triple tree to accept some 1/4" set screws & bolted the two together. Pic attached.
Keep up the good work.
Bryan

[posplayr]

750inmass

Hi Bryan,
I'm not familiar with the 73 GT750, but looks like the ignition is not on the triple so that was easier. What you going to do for steering stops?

You going to start a thread to show us what you are doing wheels/swinger etc?

Pos

[tone]

Hi pos
First i must appologise for my post about 1st gen gsxr's i was of course COMPLETELY WRONG i've been working on them since they were new so i'll never know how i managed to post something so utterly stupid.

To clarify my previous post i was really just wondering why you'd gone at this project in the way you have & was offering alternatives, your reasons are clear now & although i really do not like drilling a bottom yoke the rest makes sense

cheers tone

[posplayr]

Tone

my post about 1st gen gsxr's i was of course COMPLETELY WRONG i've been working on them since they were new so i'll never know how i managed to post something so utterly stupid.

I think the technical term is "brain fart".

I have had a few myself

I was originally thinking to drill a hole in the lower, stuff a piece of round stock through and have that welded. I talked to Rob and here is how he has done it with some beefy welded stops.

http://www.robwilton.com/triples.html

I might turn those pieces of flat stock on end and have them welded, with a bore from underneath and a "plug" weld through the drilled hole. He does some final finish fit grinding to get the stops just right.

I was going to mount the triple of a set of forks and wheel and have the welder have at it. When I spoke to him he did not think that there would be too much heat going into the forks.

Pos

[tone]

I was going to mount the triple of a set of forks and wheel and have the welder have at it. When I spoke to him he did not think that there would be too much heat going into the forks.

Pos

He can use a heat sink to minimise the heat transfered to the forks, if all else fails wadded up wet neswpaper works ok if you keep an eye on it & dont allow water to hit the hot weld, what i'd be more worried about is any weld splatter damaging the hard chrome surface

Another thought would be to use some scrap tube to jig the parts up rather than the forks themselves, obviously laying your hands on some of the right size tube would be the key here
tone

[750INMASS]

Pos,
Well here's a pic of my current project: part 73' GT750, water cooled 2 stroke triple & part 86' GSXR. I havent' gotten around to the steering stops as of yet but I was planning on having some welded to the head stock. Hopefully nobody will mind me posting a non-GS here. At least its a Suzuki right... ha, ha. I am really just in mock up stage at this point, plenty of details to sort out as of yet but it is heading in the direction I want it to. Keep up the great work, maybe we'll get these on the road sometime in '09.
Take care,

[posplayr]

750inmass

What you really need to do is beg, borrow or get a decent camera and take so pics of that project. Then start your own thread. There would be plenty of people interested in that.

So are all those 86 750 or 1100 gixer parts? Including the swinger? I see your moded the swinger for twin shocks? How are you doing alighnments?

Start a NEW thread ; it doesnt take that long.

You might find out something. Look at this tread

http://www.gixxer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=210004

Looks at the mono shock on this one.

http://www.ozebook.com/compendium/gt750/davegt750.htm

More here

http://www.ozebook.com/compendium/gt750/gt750.htm

Pos

[Ogri]

Pos,
Well here's a pic of my current project: part 73' GT750, water cooled 2 stroke triple & part 86' GSXR. I havent' gotten around to the steering stops as of yet but I was planning on having some welded to the head stock. Hopefully nobody will mind me posting a non-GS here. At least its a Suzuki right... ha, ha. I am really just in mock up stage at this point, plenty of details to sort out as of yet but it is heading in the direction I want it to. Keep up the great work, maybe we'll get these on the road sometime in '09.
Take care,

Hey Bryan, good to see you here. Here's what I did for steering stops, I simply had two 1/2" thick aluminum blocks welded to the lower triple where I needed them to be for my bars and switches to clear the tank.

[posplayr]

Ogri

Here's what I did for steering stops, I simply had two 1/2" thick aluminum blocks welded to the lower triple where I needed them to be for my bars and switches to clear the tank.

That is my current plan as well. I dropped the stuff off to the welder and expect to pick it up by tomorrow.

To get the tank clearance, I did it indirectly. The manual say that steering stops are +/- 0 deg.

I used a framing square, set to 40 degrees and aligned it beween the upper triple (across) and the frame center tube.

I then scribed a line onto the lower triple where a block would hit the frame at the 40 degree mark.

Pretty simple and did not require the tank mounted or measuring any distances between the frame and forks. It takes about 10 minutes including all double checking.

I will check tank clearance before doing any tank slappers.