Methanol

[Old Colt]

I sure do not want to be around when you are hot refueling in an endurance, not with the low flashpoint of that fuel.

If you are trying to make horsepower Avgas is not the way to go. It is formulated with a rather high vapor pressure and only a moderate caloric value.
To make power your are best with the real race fuels, they are blended to provide a high caloric value, that is a high heat per KG of fuel. The Methanol does this by needing allot of fuel with a fast burn, the race gas does it by burning hot and quick. Avgas is a moderate and slow burn, it wants a more advanced ignition timing to get complete burn.
Problem with more advance is the chamber pressure is rising before TDC so it is pushing down on the piston to early, trying to stop the crank rather than accelerate it. You want the least amount of timing and still get a full burn, this way the pressure is after TDC and pushing the crank the proper way and not trying to stop it as any pressure rise before TDC will be doing.
I came to understand this when I started tuning turbo engines with just 12-13° of timing. The crank keeps getting accelerated.
I would concentrate on getting the most compact chamber with the tightest squish area. The larger the percentage of squish area the quicker the burn in the chamber will will be. Therefore the least time needed to complete the burn.

[hp1000s]

[QUOTE=Old Colt;981398]E85 is an American blend of Ethanol and regular gas. It is only available in the dryer parts of the States since it has a very short storage life and draws in moisture very quickly.
Where I live is humid, we go out of our way to buy fuel with no alcohol for road use.

I wish that was true...almost everywhere along the Interstate I95 corridor uses E85 because of the "high traffic saturation" according to Uncle Sam. We can't get good old gasoline here. It kills us here, both on the coast and adjacent to the Chesapeake Bay...and it's especially tough on boats that sit unused all winter long...stabilizer products are only marginally effective against phase-separation that occurs after sitting & water absorbtion.

[Old Colt]

OT, I need to get down to the Annapolis area in the next month or so, sounds like I should travel on I81 and cross over then?
I might be able to borrow a diesel rig so it might not matter.

[hp1000s]

If you can find non E85, that's where it's gonna' be....and I'd appreciate it if you'd bring along a spare 2 or 3 thousand gallons for me! If you're going to be around for any length of time, I could help you find a good sandwich & cold adult beverage.
Hugh

[Old Colt]

I expect to just be one night in Lothian and then headed back north. Probably be on a weeknight.
Humm I wonder how many barrels I can muster up?

[duaneage]

[quote=hp1000s;982260]

E85 is an American blend of Ethanol and regular gas. It is only available in the dryer parts of the States since it has a very short storage life and draws in moisture very quickly.
Where I live is humid, we go out of our way to buy fuel with no alcohol for road use.

I wish that was true...almost everywhere along the Interstate I95 corridor uses E85 because of the "high traffic saturation" according to Uncle Sam. We can't get good old gasoline here. It kills us here, both on the coast and adjacent to the Chesapeake Bay...and it's especially tough on boats that sit unused all winter long...stabilizer products are only marginally effective against phase-separation that occurs after sitting & water absorbtion.

I think you mean E10 is prevalent. E85 is 85% ethanol and is actually a little rare. E10 sucks too, 8% worse mileage, 20 cents a gallon higher price.

[Skids-2008]

I sure do not want to be around when you are hot refueling in an endurance, not with the low flashpoint of that fuel.

If you are trying to make horsepower Avgas is not the way to go. It is formulated with a rather high vapor pressure and only a moderate caloric value.
To make power your are best with the real race fuels, they are blended to provide a high caloric value, that is a high heat per KG of fuel. The Methanol does this by needing allot of fuel with a fast burn, the race gas does it by burning hot and quick. Avgas is a moderate and slow burn, it wants a more advanced ignition timing to get complete burn.
Problem with more advance is the chamber pressure is rising before TDC so it is pushing down on the piston to early, trying to stop the crank rather than accelerate it. You want the least amount of timing and still get a full burn, this way the pressure is after TDC and pushing the crank the proper way and not trying to stop it as any pressure rise before TDC will be doing.
I came to understand this when I started tuning turbo engines with just 12-13° of timing. The crank keeps getting accelerated.
I would concentrate on getting the most compact chamber with the tightest squish area. The larger the percentage of squish area the quicker the burn in the chamber will will be. Therefore the least time needed to complete the burn.

Hey thanks mate , I'll keep that in mind , I was just talking to a mate of mine in the states how has done a fear amount of Drag Racing and he seems to think I'm mad. Like many of you his suggestion is to use Race Gas and simply buy a new helmet and a top of the line back brace and just man up and attack those corners until my tyres get torn from my rims.
So thanks everyone and I think I will just ran VP C12 Race Gas.

Cheers Lads.
Nath.

[Old Colt]

A few decades ago the great Kenny Roberts made this statement,

Fast in the fast turns, slow in the slow turns.
Some people think they are going fast but they don't even know what fast is!

I have this as a clipping taped on my tool chest and have believed in it.

As I instruct and mentor other drivers I have always had this in mind.
I build race cars as a living and as customers always try to spend or trick their way to a win, I work with them to get the mindset of how to win.
It simply is if you can not outspend the others, just out drive them. It works.

[Skids-2008]

A few decades ago the great Kenny Roberts made this statement,

Fast in the fast turns, slow in the slow turns.
Some people think they are going fast but they don't even know what fast is!

I have this as a clipping taped on my tool chest and have believed in it.

As I instruct and mentor other drivers I have always had this in mind.
I build race cars as a living and as customers always try to spend or trick their way to a win, I work with them to get the mindset of how to win.
It simply is if you can not outspend the others, just out drive them. It works.

There has never been a truer word spoken , Fast in Fast turns Slow in slow turns . Do I know what fast is ? Maybe maybe not , I do reasonable well at club level but at national level I have some work to do. So maybe my fast is slow " Who New". Off to Race School for me. Must Learn to ride better not stupider.

Cheers Mate.
Nath.

[fast pom]

Hi mate i seam to remember Smithys old engine putting out about 135hp at the rear wheel and you need more are you racing on the North island or on the mainland. Best of luck

[trippivot]

Gasoline has a 10% tuning atmosphere window

Methanol has a 30% atmosphere tuning window
2X~3X the volume is required with methanol jetting consumption and storage- you gotta carry a lot of the stuff around the track.

this means if the weather changes and you have gas running a 150 main jet the change is no more than 15 up or down (135~165)

methanol and the weather changes you have a 310 main= (214~403)

E.G.T. device is going to be a necessary tool to maintain top performance

I have a bit of wisdom from a road racing icon-- 3% suspension upgrade is the same as 10% more engine power. Kieth Code racer author

[duaneage]

look to reduce weight, it helps all around. Including the rider. Aerodynamics can help too, and weight in the wheels makes the biggest difference of all.

[rosco15]

this means if the weather changes and you have gas running a 150 main jet the change is no more than 15 up or down (135~165)

methanol and the weather changes you have a 310 main= (214~403)

I don't get that post.

My understanding is that on Methanol you can see huge changes in weather and your ET will change less as the "sweet spot" is so much larger. On gas the sweet spot is smaller. I didn't think it had anything to do with jets and everything to do with how the motor runs in different weather conditions.

[Skids-2008]

Hi mate i seam to remember Smithys old engine putting out about 135hp at the rear wheel and you need more are you racing on the North island or on the mainland. Best of luck

Gidday Mate.

Yeah I race in the mainland based in Invercargill , This engine went real well in its day all rite but due to a crank failure it has been pulled down and I got all the good bits , I's pretty much the same apart from I will run my race crank and cases . It seems a bit greedy to need more power but there are some real good bikes getting built down here so I want to keep up with them. One is a McIntosh Suzuki and its going to kill me. So I'm trying to squeeze every bit of power from every last dollar I have .

Cheers Mate.
Nath.

[fast pom]

Nice one mate i am up near Christchurch , i am off to Ruapuna on Sat for my first race on my GS750 , Never no may meet up on track one day