carb to fuel injection Builders Log

[beingblueeyes]

I just got the intake boots in the mail today and there to big the tb side is 2" 1/4 (tbs are 2"od) and the mounting holes are to wide (not to surprising) but what I was surprised at the most is even the "O" ring seal on the back of the boot is too big to fit the oem location. So my options are to keep looking and stabbing in the dark and maybe getting something that will fit OR trying to heat up the stock boot in boiling water and stretch it over the tb's

i also just picked up this

it’s a stock exhaust from a 04 gsxr 750, I figure I can mod it enough to work with my bike and convert it from two 2 into 1's to a 4 into 1 setup for easier wideband tuning (weld o2 nut on collector) and it will also be lighter


ok how it stands now

Parts I have:
07 CBR 600RR fuel tank w/ pump= in the mail
microsquirt= in the mail
04 gsxr 750 header w/ muff= in the mail
o2 bung= in the mail
Throttle bodys (2 inch OD on the motor side. forgot what they came from)
Fuel rail w/ FPR
Injectors


Parts I need:
Fuel lines
Sensors
Modify the fuel tank for the return fuel line
intake boots

[beingblueeyes]

Ok this morning after taking mom out to breakfast I trying to heat up one for the stock boots in boiling water and stretch it over the tb's. After letting the test boot sit in boiling water for 5 min. uninterrupted i tried to fit it on one for the tb’s with no luck. I then tried to expand the boot by pressing it down over a 2" ball (for towing) and holding the boot there until it cooled with no luck so I’m going to have to do more looking to find boots that will work

[RJ]

You may want to try some combo of radiator hoses. Slide a chunk of hose over the throttle body on one side and the stock intake boot on the other. You may need to slide a piece of pipe inside of the stock boot so that you can clamp down on the radiator hose. Not elegant but maybe a place to start.

[beingblueeyes]

You may want to try some combo of radiator hoses. Slide a chunk of hose over the throttle body on one side and the stock intake boot on the other. You may need to slide a piece of pipe inside of the stock boot so that you can clamp down on the radiator hose. Not elegant but maybe a place to start.

that’s a good idea, it would get me by enough for when the microsquirt shows up the motor could run

[gmansyz]

Too Big!

Man, those TB's are much too big. What is the I.D. Bore? I think they might have come from an R1 or perhaps a ZX12. I would have recomended the stock GPZ1100 TB's. They have a 34mm bore and the spacing is nearly perfect for a GS1100. Just ask Arttu. So may even fit the stock 550 intake boots too and are much shorter in length than the tb's you have now. Then use the GPZ11 fuel pump. From your petcock and you may even be able to get away with using a "T" in line instead of a new return line to the tank.
GREG

[drhach]

I would think that you could compensate for the throttle body size by making an airbox and restricting its opening. You can't over fuel the bike, the main issue is throttle response. Using a smallish airbox and a small opening in the airbox should help. I've shopped for the Gpz throttle bodies and they are getting rarer and more expensive by the day. If you can adapt a more current and common system, I think you'd be better off.

Can you weld? If so, maybe you could make a spigot out of aluminum or steel. Then go to someplace like www.siliconeintakes.com. They sell tons of oddball sized tubing. They even have reducers so you can go from one size on the TB's to another on the intake spigots.

Also, regarding the tank, I don't see any reason why you couldn't just use an external pump. Something like


Tank->Line with a T in it->Pump-> Fuel Rail ->Pressure regulator->T in fuel line.

You might have issues with your fuel getting a little warm, but it shouldn't be a deal breaker and you wouldn't need a dedicated return orifice in the tank.

[beingblueeyes]

Man, those TB's are much too big. What is the I.D. Bore? I think they might have come from an R1 or perhaps a ZX12. I would have recomended the stock GPZ1100 TB's. They have a 34mm bore and the spacing is nearly perfect for a GS1100. Just ask Arttu. So may even fit the stock 550 intake boots too and are much shorter in length than the tb's you have now. Then use the GPZ11 fuel pump. From your petcock and you may even be able to get away with using a "T" in line instead of a new return line to the tank.
GREG

Very good suggestions, I went with the tb's I’m using because
a: I had it already (along with the injectors w/pig tails and fuel rail that fit it)
b: I’m thinking about doing the hole 550 block 650 cylinders punched out for 750 pistons thing in time
c: I think the size of the tbs is a good thing because the air going throw them will not be moving that fast due to the size but will increase velocity when going into the chamber/head after the fuel has been injected due to the funneling down of the 2" od of the throttle body’s to the stock (for now) port size

I looked for a gpz fuel pump on ebay and they all looked old and near death (and as of right now (may 12/09 @ 9:34 pm) there are none on ebay) I’m going with a 07 cbr fuel pump that I will make work because its new and has lots of life left in it. I’m still thinking about the idea of "T"'ing the return line into the fuel pump surge tank feed line and it’s not sitting well with me, for some reason I keep thinking of the fuel psi creeping up (if the return line didn’t need to be there OEM car builders of the 90's/00's wouldn’t put it on to save $$ and I do realize that some have done away with the return line)

I would think that you could compensate for the throttle body size by making an airbox and restricting its opening. You can't over fuel the bike, the main issue is throttle response. Using a smallish airbox and a small opening in the airbox should help. I've shopped for the Gpz throttle bodies and they are getting rarer and more expensive by the day. If you can adapt a more current and common system, I think you'd be better off.

Can you weld? If so, maybe you could make a spigot out of aluminum or steel. Then go to someplace like www.siliconeintakes.com. They sell tons of oddball sized tubing. They even have reducers so you can go from one size on the TB's to another on the intake spigots.

Also, regarding the tank, I don't see any reason why you couldn't just use an external pump. Something like


Tank->Line with a T in it->Pump-> Fuel Rail ->Pressure regulator->T in fuel line.

You might have issues with your fuel getting a little warm, but it shouldn't be a deal breaker and you wouldn't need a dedicated return orifice in the tank.

Yes I can weld (not alm.) what’s a "spigot"? I’m going to end up building a serge tank and putting that "internal fuel pump" in it because i think ill have the best of both worlds (i.e no cutting apart the fuel tank-external fuel pump that’s new-I won’t need to worry as much about fuel sloshing around in the tank and feeding a "air bubble" to a regular external fuel pump)most likely ill will run a "T" line to the fuel surge tank from the return line. But like I told gmansyz I’m still thinking about it

[beingblueeyes]

Well today I’m back in the hunt
I think I’m going to mount the throttle bodies to the motor using the modified stock carb boots. I burnt the rubber off in large chunks use a blow torch, and then I hit it with the wire wheel to get the remainder of the burnt rubber off. Then I cut off the carb sink port and sanded it. I attached the throttle bodies to the mod carb boot using a rubber reducer (2” to 1 ½) I know the mod stock carb boot doesn’t have that much area to attach the rubber reducer and maintain integrity under its own weight so I will build a brace from the throttle bodies to the cam cover bolts, so the only thing the boots need to do is keep vac . dose anyone know of a good bonding agent I could use on the reducer to mo0d carb boot? I’m thing of auto high temp silicone.
Here are some pics.

[donimo]

I am new to bikes, but with cars I know it really didn't matter that much about TB size. With carbs it matters because you need a certain amount of air velocity to draw the fuel out of the jets etc, but if you are injectin an already atomized fuel spray (the injector) then bore size has much less effect on throttle response.

A good example is a popular edelbrock EFI conversion kit uses a 1400cfm TB for a 302ci motor that couldnt handle a 650cfm carb without tuning issues...

again I know I am a bike newb, and I now know that putting a different muffler on a bike can call for jetting changes, in cars I have run open headers with no jetting issues so there you go...

[beingblueeyes]

ok all, I got the 04 gsxr 750 header today and I can say without a shadow of a doubt it will never fit un-modified. The pipes that go into the motor are much too big, there at the wrong angle. So it will need to be chopped up a MADE to fit

here are some pics showing the stock header and the gsxr header side to side

[beingblueeyes]

Ladies and gents I give you the first ever 04 gsxr 750 headers on a Suzuki gs550. Ok I just finished the trial fitting on the gsxr mod headers and I think they look amazing, the pics really do not do the bike with this header justice, there is some more cutting/welding/grinding to do but you get the basic idea. I even think there is still enough room to change the oil filter. As for the weight of the OEM vs gsxr OEM vs gsxr mod here are the totals
OEM 79 gs550= 24 lbs
OEM 04 gsxr750= 20 lbs
I do not have the weight of the gsxr mod header. why? Because its not done!

The gsxr pipes are huge in comparison to "real size" of the stock gs550 pipes





Fabrication music: cream gold compilation
(Most of the time I have something a lot faster and harder playing like slipknot but I tried to play something more this bikes style and I think she liked it)

Note's:
no progress will be made tomorrow or Saterday
friday: I’m volunteering at the “relay for life” in Brunswick (ME) come stop in and walk some laps and show Support
Saturday: going down to MA to see my brother graduate from grad school, it will be a day of days (I am so proud of him)

[beingblueeyes]

ok all
today i cut down the 04 gsxr 750 muffler, its now 13 inches long and a 2 baffel and looks much better on the bike, i also nitched all the exhast pipes and bent them up to give me more ground clearance were i need it. i also cut off the stock passanger foot rests/oem muffle brackets and i think it gives the bike a nicer/sleeker look. all of this is indirectly part of my converting to fuel injection.
my bike in now worth .40 cents more, i used 4 dimes to cap off the holes from the passenger foot rests




Plan for tomorrow is to finish the exhaust and if time allows to start making the throttle body mounts

[beingblueeyes]

After finishing the exhaust (95% I still need to make a hanger) a very nice USPS employee brought my gas tank!
After taking apart the in-tank fuel pick up assembly I ran into kind of a snag, the fuel pump used a inverted connection to the plastic fuel pump holder to get gas out of the tank. I didn’t account for this, so after so head scratching I decided just to tap the fuel pump with NPT and use a brass barb fitting and it worked very well. Now for the pics
All the pieces of the fuel pickup assembly and one of my feet w/ flip-flop

How the fuel pump with NPT turned out

Fuel pump with fitting size compared to a cd

Since the tank also came with a nice new gas door with key, I think I might cut the Suzuki tank up and install that one instead

[beingblueeyes]

Hello again all
I’ve been out straight working on the daily driver(s) so not much time to work on the bike but what I did do was bond 2 of the 4 intake boots to their new rubber throttle body mounts using jb weld. I first ruffed up the alm. lip then I ruffed up the inside on the rubber (using sand paper on both) and cleaned both ruffed up surfaces with vinegar. After applying the jb weld I put them in a vice to keep force on the bonding area over night and let them dry in the sun the entire next day. I think it might work, I will still need to build a bracket for the throttle body’s but that’s easy enough to do



pic of side of bike

[oshanac]

Beingblueeyes-JB Weld!!! That's awesome! Where there's a will, there's a way! Once you deem it works, just bring the pieces to a muffler shop to duplicate for cheap. They can hook you up with welded or streched pipe.