Tired of wasting money on jets!

[sonnygs1100]

all BS aside...
if you want to have a proper running machine..
your doing the right thing.
its all in the needles but to get the right needles...you have to buy the the ST. 3 jet kit.
dont over think the jet kit..
install as per intructions 100% and see how it acts.
most people want to finger with these kits but only end up wasting time and not having any major gains..
if your at high altitude then some changes are in order.
post back with your results.

ive found if you have an adjustable exhaust like supertrap or kirker you can fine tune both jet kit and exhaust for a few extra ponies but it helps if you have acsess to a dyno machine and half a day

[blowerbike]

ive found if you have an adjustable exhaust like supertrap or kirker you can fine tune both jet kit and exhaust for a few extra ponies but it helps if you have acsess to a dyno machine and half a day

good point but.......
why do you think these cheeeeeep azzes around here are just putting main jets in these?
its hard enough trying to get them to buy a buck and a quarter jet kit.
they would squeal like a pig if they had to fork over dyno time cash

[TheCafeKid]

too funny, I never knew that article made it to a post within GSR. Well, I guess there goes 4 hours of typing down the drain. That article needs to be made into a sticky !!!! I can't tell you hown many new GS'ers (and many old experienced ones as well) ask over and over "how come my bike runs so crappy with pods" That article gave my a whole new educated perspective on intake air flow, and how mods affect the air flow....

I'm actually almost done typing the article, maybe I should just finish it and make it a quick readable post anyways...

Id appreciate it Rich. Im on wifi pickup from someplace broadcasted nearby and its intermitant at best. Ive not been able to D/L that PDF to read the article before my connection craps out. Since you already went to the trouble to type it up, id LOVE to see it. It might even end up in my "Carb Tuning Bible" ive been putting together based on my own experiences and tons of input and articles from other GSR and sources... Thanks man!

[TheCafeKid]

all BS aside...
if you want to have a proper running machine..
your doing the right thing.
its all in the needles but to get the right needles...you have to buy the the ST. 3 jet kit.
dont over think the jet kit..
install as per intructions 100% and see how it acts.
most people want to finger with these kits but only end up wasting time and not having any major gains..
if your at high altitude then some changes are in order.
post back with your results.

I had a dog. And his name was BINGO!!!

You can play with jets for the rest of your life on the CV carbs to try to tune for pods, forget the pipe, its the least of the worries... But the bottom line is simply that the STOCK MiC needles will NEVER work with pods. They simply cant deliver the fuel fast enough in the midrange, and 9 times out of 10 thats where people complain about the bike falling on its face~the pilot to needle transition and on. You can shim the stock needles, it might help some, but the taper is just not "fast" enough to get the gas there when it needs it. I suppose you could even buy some old "VM" style sharp needles from Sudco or something, guessing at what you need, and spend a bunch more money and time doing that, and MAYBE SOMEDAY you'd get damn close. But, as ive said after attempting to jet CV carbs by hand for pods for MONTHS and only getting frustrated and wasting my time. I will NEVER EVER EVER hand jet a set of vaccum carbs by hand if the DJ kit is available again. No offence, but its just stupid. Seriously, if you spend the money for the kit, install it, and then fine tune it, you'll see how QUICKLY you dial that sucker in, and you will smack the chit out of yourself for not doing it sooner. Will it be perfect? Nope. Never will...I still battle for perfection. Its not going to happen. But it will be DAMN CLOSE, and very VERY rideable and noticably more powerful. Alls i gots to say is Thanks Terry for hitting me with that 2x4 of knowlege and realization that one LAST time....

[sonnygs1100]

good point but.......
why do you think these cheeeeeep azzes around here are just putting main jets in these?
its hard enough trying to get them to buy a buck and a quarter jet kit.
they would squeal like a pig if they had to fork over dyno time cash

ok sorry , ive been riding harleys and buells to long to worry about a buck and a quarter

[tejasmud]

Here is a page I came across, don't know how valid, but interesting.

http://www.braigasen.com/Fuel_Flow_Charts_Mikuni.htm

I was looking for needle sizes, fuel flow comparisons for VM33s. Still looking for a set of 29s, but have not found them yet.

On the 700E I plan to attempt to tune or de-tune VM33s. Yes, I know they will be a challenge, may not or may be too big, but if one knows the measure of the AFR it might help in getting them set.

Currently, I have purchased 3 sizes of air jets, 6 sizes of main jets, 3-4 sizes of pilot jets, and 2 sizes of leaner needles with new 261 0-6 needle jets. Have not ventured into the slide angles yet. Need to determine some richer needles, possibly multiple taper needles.

700E with 4-1 V&H megaphone pipe and K&Ns vs. VM33s, then on to VM29s if I can get a set at a reasonable price.

I will be using an Innovate LM1, with the LMA3.

This will measure WB-AFR, G-force, RPM/via inductive clamp, MPH/once I rig up a hall sensor and collar, MAP, and maybe a CHT. I really want to get a TPS hooked up, and will probably do this instead of CHT.

CVs? Tuning them in can be done with pods, but it really helps to know.

With an Innovate LC1 all it takes is wacking the throttle wide open once, and you know which direction to go with the jetting.

Yes, it is expensive, but the set-up LM1 + LMA3 + sensors runs under $1K. Tune a bike, run it as stand alone, or use it for the next bike.

LC-1 and DB guage runs under $250.

I wish it was as easy as just buying jets.







My name is Eric, and I'm an addict....

Sorry....... Continue......

[Road_Clam]

I But the bottom line is simply that the STOCK MiC needles will NEVER work with pods. They simply cant deliver the fuel fast enough in the midrange,

Sorry, you're wrong. Be patient until I get the the Cycle Workd article posted (or just d/l the one that srsupertrap has linked), read the article a few times, as it has SO much info and data, then you will see the true dyno findings and corrective results. The stock needles are fine with some modifications to the stock shimming configuration. You don't need to spend extra money on differnet needles. The only difference between an excellent running modified GS, and a pi$$ poor running modified GS is DYNO TUNING.

This is the #1 reason I am TOTALLY against adding pods.... slap pods on a stock, or mildly jetted GS, and the bike will run absolutely horrible unless you can put the bike on a dyno... BUT there is a way to really get some impressive hp gains by tweaking jetting, if you know systematically what and where to extrude the hp.

[blowerbike]

the ridabilty and the smoothness of rpm transition will never be as good with stock needles as with DJ st.3 needles.w/(individial filters)
DJ has made several changes in the GS1100/1150 jet kits/needles over the years.
i see all the same questions and the p*ssing and moaning about peoples vaccum carbs not running properly and then you come to find out that they removed the airbox and installed "pods" and big main jets.
if a jet kit is offered for your bike..buy it/install it/ and move on to a differant area of the bike to work on..dont make a life long project out of jetting your carbs.
stock needles will NEVER have the same ridabily as DJ needles on GS vaccum carbs that has had the airbox removed.
*note
i have a large amount of the cycle/cycle world/motorcyclist/cycle guide ect... magazines from years gone by in my closet.
word of mouth or these magazines was the only way to learn from before the invent of the internet.
i always looked forward to joe menton's articals and jeff karr's adventures/mad mel's turbo honda/suz V&H write up's ect.. to name a few.
i do miss those days!

[Road_Clam]

the ridabilty and the smoothness of rpm transition will never be as good with stock needles as with DJ st.3 needles.w/(individial filters)
DJ has made several changes in the GS1100/1150 jet kits/needles over the years.
i see all the same questions and the p*ssing and moaning about peoples vaccum carbs not running properly and then you come to find out that they removed the airbox and installed "pods" and big main jets.
if a jet kit is offered for your bike..buy it/install it/ and move on to a differant area of the bike to work on..dont make a life long project out of jetting your carbs.
stock needles will NEVER have the same ridabily as DJ needles on GS vaccum carbs that has had the airbox removed.
*note
i have a large amount of the cycle/cycle world/motorcyclist/cycle guide ect... magazines from years gone by in my closet.
word of mouth or these magazines was the only way to learn from before the invent of the internet.
i always looked forward to joe menton's articals and jeff karr's adventures/mad mel's turbo honda/suz V&H write up's ect.. to name a few.
i do miss those days!

There prabably is a "better" needle now (25 years later) but remember, the article I was referring to was testing a GS1100 back in 1983 when there was not a lot of data gathered yet on the TSCC Suzukis.

I believe what the Kerker dyno staff did was swap the stock needle plastic spacer from the underside of the slide to the top. This richens up the needle circiut. The article is slightly unclear as to exactly how they "re-shimmed" the needle, but this is how I am interperting what they did.

[TheCafeKid]

Sorry, you're wrong. Be patient until I get the the Cycle Workd article posted (or just d/l the one that srsupertrap has linked), read the article a few times, as it has SO much info and data, then you will see the true dyno findings and corrective results. The stock needles are fine with some modifications to the stock shimming configuration. You don't need to spend extra money on differnet needles. The only difference between an excellent running modified GS, and a pi$$ poor running modified GS is DYNO TUNING.

This is the #1 reason I am TOTALLY against adding pods.... slap pods on a stock, or mildly jetted GS, and the bike will run absolutely horrible unless you can put the bike on a dyno... BUT there is a way to really get some impressive hp gains by tweaking jetting, if you know systematically what and where to extrude the hp.

Dude. Rich. Im gonna be nice. Have YOU done it? Have YOU played with needles and shimming and jets and all that crap with pods on your 1100? Apparently not. Ive TRIED shimming the needles. It will still fall on its face at some point in the rev range. WTF is the matter with you people? you're going to ignore people who have been doing this their whole lives? People who squeeze every last ounce of HP out of those motors, tinker, tune, run it, blow it up and then start over again.. Im not saying im one of these people, im far from it. But when they talk, I listen. If you want to play with nylon washers on a Dyno till your hair turns white then have at it. Its still going to have problem spots. Period. When you buy a DJ kit, or a Factory Pro kit, or VH kit or whatever kit you want to buy, you're not paying for the product. You're paying for the research. I'll say again, SOMEDAY you MIGHT get MiC needles to work, only after endless hours of trial and error. And the ONLY ones i think will ever work are VM needles that have more of a taper. But even those, you'll go crazy trying to work all of the bad spots out. Its not going to happen. If it worked as easily as people think, EVERYONE would do it. Everyone's bike would be running around on pod filters and a pipe. Its not.

The article you're typing up is a nice guide, some other info on tuning carbs. Its not the end all, be all article, the Holy Bible of carb tuning. It really erks me when people read an article and suddenly they know more than people who've made a career out of it. I certainly dont. And I dont pretend to. But i DO know what ive done that DOESNT work, and shimming the stock needles is one thing.

[Sunburn]

Jet kit will come with adjustable needles, this is key to get it to run right. It's not just about the main jets.


All the air flow changes when you remove the stock air box.


I re-jetted a stock 89 GSXF-750 I put on a yosh pipe and individual air filters. The dyno jet ket i purchased was great. Came with detailed instructions and trouble shooting. That bike was screeming when I was done. But I had them carbs off more times then I can count adjusting the needles mostly.


With out that jet kit and instructions I would have never got it done.

I repeat, same as quote above. Without the dyno jet kit, i would never got this bike to run right with the pods.

The needles had to be adjusted

New main jets

Had to drill out an area and insert a special plastic insert to increase air flow, this was also adjustable as well.

Drill out the mixture caps for access to the air mixture screws.

Detailed instructions had to be followed along with trial and error. Then go over the trouble shooting section over and over again until I got it right. I did not need to be a re-jet carb know it all stud. Just follow instructions with important upgrade parts made by and tested pro's.

Unless your a pro with a ton of spare parts......buy the damn kit and shut up.

Done deal!

[TheCafeKid]

I repeat, same as quote above. Without the dyno jet kit, i would never got this bike to run right with the pods.

The needles had to be adjusted

New main jets

Had to drill out an area and insert a special plastic insert to increase air flow, this was also adjustable as well.

Drill out the mixture caps for access to the air mixture screws.

Detailed instructions had to be followed along with trial and error. Then go over the trouble shooting section over and over again until I got it right. I did not need to be a re-jet carb know it all stud. Just follow instructions with important upgrade parts made by and tested pro's.

Unless your a pro with a ton of spare parts......buy the damn kit and shut up.

Done deal!

Interweb high five bro... theres no reason to pull your hair out if the answer is right in front of you.

[RJ]

I have an '82 1100E that is essentially stock except for Dyna S ignition, Vance & Hines megaphone, and pods. I had a midrange throttle stumble that I could not get rid of. I installed a Dynojet Stage III kit per the instructions. It now runs like a scalded ape. What else do you need to know? Dynojet has already put in the dyno time so you don't have to. Why re-invent the wheel?

[Octain]

Its time to bring this one back to life!!

My bike(850) is getting close to the tuning stage and I've already looked at the DJ Kit on the Dennis Kirk website, its in my checkout and I fully intend to buy it when the time comes cause I already know Im gonna need it. THe bike already had a dead spot smack dab in the middle of the throttle climb. Trying to do all the research now so hopfully I'll have a jump on it.
Yeah, Im doing PODS and a four into one. Is an alarm gonna go off?

Sorry to all you stock lovers out there but the stock airbox is butt UGLY!

[49er]

Its time to bring this one back to life!!

My bike(850) is getting close to the tuning stage and I've already looked at the DJ Kit on the Dennis Kirk website, its in my checkout and I fully intend to buy it when the time comes cause I already know Im gonna need it. THe bike already had a dead spot smack dab in the middle of the throttle climb. Trying to do all the research now so hopfully I'll have a jump on it.
Yeah, Im doing PODS and a four into one. Is an alarm gonna go off?

Sorry to all you stock lovers out there but the stock airbox is butt UGLY!

A butt Ugly airbox would make anyone want to fit pods.

Have fun, spend up and if nothing else, you'll help improve the economy.