'80 GS1100E rebuild

[RacingJake]

The UPS man dropped off a toy this morning!

[URL="http://images.snurkle.net/main.php?g2_itemId=37203&g2_imageViewsIndex=1"]

Did you get the sprocket carrier too ?? Cause the oem cush drive has six slot's and the new rim pictured has 5.

[jwhelan65]

Katman's top hat spacers completely replace the Bandit bushings and reduce the ID down to the GS swing arm bolt OD which is 20mm. He makes his out of SS. The extra step fits into the inner spacer. The total stack height is pretty critical as per the discussion by Tone.




I bet 14mm was a challenge; on my ED the 12.5mm total was a very tight fit.



The 180 fit pretty easy, but I never dealt with the diff in chain alignment and those related clearance issues. One of the primary reasons I stayed with 18" wheels. The fit is just much easier.

As far as chain, you most likely have to use a 520 and moving the swing arm over may introduce some 180 tire clearance issues but should not affect the chain alignment/spacing which the 180 tire will dictate.

Before you get too committed to this you need to get an engine mocked up and determine the counter sprocket offset and rear sprocket offset combination. Typically a 5/8" offset counter sprocket is required for a 180 tire but with the offset swing arm, you will need to figure out the rear spacer for proper wheel alignment.

The only other issue is shock mounts to insure you get the same height (unless you have height adjustable shocks which are many $$$$$) and potential chain guard clearance issues with the shock springs. What shocks you planning on running?

Here is a 520 conversion set up with a 5/8 offset and stock GS spline spacer on the front, very crucial to allow for chain clearance as well as clearing the shock spring, depending on what suspension you go with.



One chainguard idea, simple and cheap..

[posplayr]

Hey Joe,
Sorry you could not make the Shasta Trip; Maybe another So cal trip would be easier. When you gonna get the EZ going? After heading up to OR, I figured about 2500 miles give or take in thge week. Quite a bit for me and I'm still recovering but mostly from sleeping on the ground.
Jim

[cavehamster]

Did you get the sprocket carrier too ?? Cause the oem cush drive has six slot's and the new rim pictured has 5.

No worries. It seems that later model 'zuks use pretty much the same hub, and so I bought one off ebay for $18 shipped. Should be here early next week.

Now I just gotta order some bearings, a caliper, and a disc, wheee.

[jwhelan65]

Hey Joe,
Sorry you could not make the Shasta Trip; Maybe another So cal trip would be easier. When you gonna get the EZ going? After heading up to OR, I figured about 2500 miles give or take in thge week. Quite a bit for me and I'm still recovering but mostly from sleeping on the ground.
Jim

Sent you a PM Jim

[posplayr]

So Joe,
What clearances are you currently running between:

* chain to tire
* chain to upper frame
* chain to lower frame

Just guessing but most of mine is about 1/4" or will not hit even when deflected with my finger.

[cavehamster]

Got the bearings in today, and put one in, slapped on the hub, and put the engine back in.

Yeah... this wheel's hub is just too wide, I can't imagine being able to get it under the centerline of the bike and making the chain work. Ah well.

I see that jwhelan65 is using a Bandit wheel, looking up the cross, anything off a GSXR-1100 93-98, a Bandit 1200 97-05, a RF900 94-97 use the same wheel, 17" x 5.5, with the 6 slot cush. Guess it's back off to ebay with me!

Anyone need a GSXR-600 rear wheel with hub? Hehehe...

Paycheck is coming soon, which means... more parts! Hopefully have all the goodies I need to get this rear end back on the ground in the next week or two. I found a local shop who can weld my tabs on. Looks like I need to actually machine them now Also, at this point, I am planning on going with the IKON/KONI shocks and save some $$$ off the Ohlins.

Onward and upward, eh?

[jwhelan65]

So Joe,
What clearances are you currently running between:

* chain to tire
* chain to upper frame
* chain to lower frame

Just guessing but most of mine is about 1/4" or will not hit even when deflected with my finger.

Jim,
Can't give you a defnite number on these because the bike is apart, however I recall the chain to tire was the biggest concern and the reason I went with 180 Pirelli which according to Rob is the narrowest 180 you can find. I believe the clearance on the chain to tire was 3-4mm.

[rapidray]

Do you have a 5/8 inch offset sprocket? If not, that is why you are thinking it won't line up. Ray.

[cavehamster]

Do you have a 5/8 inch offset sprocket? If not, that is why you are thinking it won't line up. Ray.

I'll post a pic in the morning, but even with, I just don't see it happening. The hub area of the wheel sticks way out, and although the hub itself is flat, with the wheel in the right area to be centered on the bike, the chain would have to go through the frame.

The good news is that I found another wheel for cheap, so it might not be the end of the world, haha.

[posplayr]

Do you have a 5/8 inch offset sprocket? If not, that is why you are thinking it won't line up. Ray.

I mentioned that earlier but he wants to try with the stock countersproket.

[cavehamster]

I mentioned that earlier but he wants to try with the stock countersproket.

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to imply this. I know I will have to offset, I knew this going in, but what I meant in that previous post is that I would like to think about a way to use a stock sprocket with something that will offset it, so that when the sprocket eventually dies, I can just buy a new sprocket and not a whole new offset unit for $$$.

I'm probably not going to be able to manage this, but hey, it's worth thinking about.

I'm listening closely to what you guys have to say here, I would never have made it this far without having your excellent posts to go off of. It's a fun engineering challenge, and I appreciate folks who view it in the same way.

Regardless, as I mentioned just prior to this post, looking at the wheel I chose, I'm not convinced I can make it work. I'll post a pic in the morning and hopefully you'll see what I mean. As I said, to get the wheel close to bike centerline, the chain would have to go through the frame, at least eyeballing it. I'll steal a couple of HeNe lasers from work to verify, but I don't think it will happen with what I have

[posplayr]

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to imply this. I know I will have to offset, I knew this going in, but what I meant in that previous post is that I would like to think about a way to use a stock sprocket with something that will offset it, so that when the sprocket eventually dies, I can just buy a new sprocket and not a whole new offset unit for $$$.

I'm probably not going to be able to manage this, but hey, it's worth thinking about.

I'm listening closely to what you guys have to say here, I would never have made it this far without having your excellent posts to go off of. It's a fun engineering challenge, and I appreciate folks who view it in the same way.

Regardless, as I mentioned just prior to this post, looking at the wheel I chose, I'm not convinced I can make it work. I'll post a pic in the morning and hopefully you'll see what I mean. As I said, to get the wheel close to bike centerline, the chain would have to go through the frame, at least eyeballing it. I'll steal a couple of HeNe lasers from work to verify, but I don't think it will happen with what I have

Unless you have someone else do the conversion for you, you really need to understand all the ins and outs of the alignment issues involved. No body ever figures out the fastest and best solution to a problem the first time through. The important thing is to be able to keep learning and checking your own work till you get it right.

I have seen plenty of examples (much more the norm than the exception) that there is a personal attachment to a particular solution because of the effort someone expended on getting to that point even if it is really "sub-optimal" if not outright wrong. The ability and personal discipline to move beyond those situations is the most important.

I think there are many examples of putting a 180/55-17 with 17x5.5 wheel on the back of a GS even with the stock swing arm. It is tight but is has been done plenty of times and in different ways. Mine is a 170/60-18 even though it is on a 18x4.5 wheel and it fits with plenty of room.

[cavehamster]

Unless you have someone else do the conversion for you, you really need to understand all the ins and outs of the alignment issues involved. No body ever figures out the fastest and best solution to a problem the first time through. The important thing is to be able to keep learning and checking your own work till you get it right.

I have seen plenty of examples (much more the norm than the exception) that there is a personal attachment to a particular solution because of the effort someone expended on getting to that point even if it is really "sub-optimal" if not outright wrong. The ability and personal discipline to move beyond those situations is the most important.

I think there are many examples of putting a 180/55-17 with 17x5.5 wheel on the back of a GS even with the stock swing arm. It is tight but is has been done plenty of times and in different ways. Mine is a 170/60-18 even though it is on a 18x4.5 wheel and it fits with plenty of room.

I appreciate that, and I am trying my best to build off your work and others to come up with something that works for me. I experiment here and there, but I'm not married to any solution until it works.

That said, take a look at these photos. I lucked out and found the cable for my camera in the basement.




As near as I can tell, the order of operations to getting this thing lined up is:

1) Align swingarm with offset to clear the rear brake plunger (check)
2) Align the wheel to the centerline of the bike (in process)
3) Align the sprocket to sprocket, using offsets on the engine side (to do)

If any of the latter is too far off, wiggle the others until you get it, but the key key key is that the rear wheel is on the centerline of the front, and that the chain clears the tire, frame, and shock spring.

Note that I have re-installed the engine so I can look at the front sprocket, as suggested.

With that said, visually, I cannot line this wheel up so that it both sits on the bike centerline and the chain will clear the frame. You can see from the top photo that it looks like the chain will work, but in the bottom photo, it is not centered on the bike. Again, I need to borrow some lasers and check this, but I don't think this wheel was a good swap.

From the wheel rim to the face of the hub, I measure 25mm. The Bandit wheel looks like the hub tucks in a lot further, am I wrong?

So, right now, just trying to work through getting the proper wheel and getting it aligned. Again, I am open to suggestions and advice, and I probably will experiment as the mood strikes me

Thanks!

[posplayr]

1) Align swingarm with offset to clear the rear brake plunger (check)
2) Align the wheel to the centerline of the bike (in process)
3) Align the sprocket to sprocket, using offsets on the engine side (to do)

I think you are on the right track. I would say though that you need figure out what type of tolerance you are trying to achieve, because to a certain extent when you are fiddling to get something to work you are encroaching on those error tolerances.

I did my wheel alignments last weekend and spent some time going back through the old calculations.

On item #1 above the minimum offset required was 4.5mm so instead of 6mm/6mm top hat spacers I had 10.5/2 mm spacers. This pushes the left fork 4.5mm further to the left. And allows just enough room for teh plunger to fit between mt ED frame and teh Bandit swingarm.


On item #2 above, You should reverify this but I think the left swingarm fork is 3/16" (or there about) further to the left. In other words if you split the difference between your swingarm forks the wheel center will be 3/16" to the left (towards the sprocket side). As mentioned before Katman used a jig to measure that. I used a straight edge and a T square measuring left v.s. right side of the swing arm. He may have measured it as 5.2mm v.s. my 4.8mm. remember offset needs to be measured along an axis that is parallel to the swing arm bolt.

Using his numbers you need the center of your wheel at 9.7mm to the sprocket side of the center of the swingarm forks. Of course the tolerance could be 9.7 +/- 2.0mm and not notice any real issue. In a pinch you could go as far as 9.7 +/- 4.0mm.

To achieve this you will need a left and right hand spacer along with using the stock brake arm and spacer.

As it turned out I accepted a 2.3mm offset and went to a 1.004" spacer and did not need a brake side spacer for the 88 GSXR 1100 3 spoke 8x4.5" wheels. The numbers would be different for a 17x5.5" wheel.

Finally for Item #3 above, the counter sprocket alignment probably needs to be within about +/- 0.125 (1/8") and probably no more than 1/2 a sprocket tooth width to insure you have no way of hopping a sprocket.

With my 170/60-18 I'm using a 3/8" offset sprocket and I'm still 5mm from the frame with a 530 chain. Most 180 rear tires require 5/8" offset which would put a 530 chain basically into the frame (5mm of room and 1/4" extra offset). So to avoid grinding down your frame, a 520 chain is recommended. The 630 has almost no way of fitting it is too wide. Kataman has posted different measurements of 530 chain thickness. Heavier tensile strength chains are beefier and almost no size benefit. You need a tin 530 or 520 chain.

With the above you will need to do something like the string alignment to get the front and rear wheels in alignment.

Hope that helps; anybody got any issues with the above