V&H Billet Clutch Basket Question

[quexpress]

makes a nice ash tray

I don't care what they do with the OEM basket LOL!

I'm just trying to understand if the new HD backing plate is installing directly onto the V&H billet basket or over the existing backing plate; and also how is the new gear ring attached to it.

Thanks!

[Nessism]

You can't have two backing plates installed at the same time. The old one is removed and replaced along with the springs. New rivets are used and the assembly is then welded together.

Honestly now, if your bike is stock that basket will provide no benefit. A HD spring and back plate kit provide the benefit of eliminating excess play in the springs which is common, thus creating a rattle noise, but the basket itself, nothing. The HD back plate and that billet hub are basically for racer guys that beat on their bikes and overload the stock parts.

[blowerbike]

side load side load side load.
one power shift from 1st to 2nd can blow a basket.
an H/D backing plate kit is not just for racing or racers

[Nessism]

side load side load side load.
one power shift from 1st to 2nd can blow a basket.
an H/D backing plate kit is not just for racing or racers

You're splitting hairs here. Guys power shifting their 100+ hp motorcycles basically "are" racers, whether on a track or street.

[Nicholaschase29]

Excuse my ignorance here, but I'm curious how the basket is constructed and how the power is transferred... If the gear on the back is riveted onto the basket, where do the springs come into play if the power is transmitted through the rivets? or are the holes the rivets go through slotted to allow the basket to rotate and then the springs take up the load and cushion the power as it's transmitted from the crank to the trans?

[blowerbike]

You're splitting hairs here. Guys power shifting their 100+ hp motorcycles basically "are" racers, whether on a track or street.

i did not know that this was a goldwing forum.

my point is.......
if a person has there dick skinners in there shimming and welding the stock basket..
why not install the H/D backing plate kit while your there????
it is the same...maybe even less labor than the shimming stuff.
so less than 150 bucks would let a person go from doing a band aid job to correct/professional H/D clutch basket that if a person chooses to run hard...
they can without worries about crap blowing through the cases when there stock basket fly's apart..
i have seen several pipe/jet kitted 1100/1150's with ruined cases from a "non racer" having "blown the carbon out".

[blowerbike]

Excuse my ignorance here, but I'm curious how the basket is constructed and how the power is transferred... If the gear on the back is riveted onto the basket, where do the springs come into play if the power is transmitted through the rivets? or are the holes the rivets go through slotted to allow the basket to rotate and then the springs take up the load and cushion the power as it's transmitted from the crank to the trans?

your clutch basket is the same principal as your rear wheel cush drive.
what loosen's everything is the side load from the angle primary gears.
suzuki used the angle gears because they are quiet...they never considered the side load issues these gears would create.
old kawi's don't have this problem...why?
because they have straight cut gears installed from the factory.
yes the old kawi's are noisy... but they won't blow the basket apart even when modified.
if you ever come upon a cheap GS basket...buy it and take it apart.
you will see how everything works.

[Turtleface]

I love powershifting my 1100E, and running her right up to 9 grand. Didn't do it very often, and didn't miss-shift or over-rev.

Still, it's probably why my clutch basket started knocking. Thankfully, I caught it before it flew apart. I'm waiting on it to come back from APE, with my new HD kit installed, along with a new hub nut, fibers and springs. Kinda spendy, but it's nice knowing that I won't have to touch it ever again...until I get around to building a bigger motor, anyways.

[rapidray]

Did you get the "extra plate" clutch kit that will gouge the crap out of your hub? Ray.

[posplayr]

Did you get the "extra plate" clutch kit that will gouge the crap out of your hub? Ray.

Ray is trying to say is the thinner fibers cut into the hub more causing clutch drag.

[quexpress]

old kawi's don't have this problem...why?
because they have straight cut gears installed from the factory.
yes the old kawi's are noisy... but they won't blow the basket apart even when modified.

I have noticed a few times on this forum that people have mentioned getting straight cut gears installed. I can see that it must be much more robust and is good insurance.

However I would like to know when the situation changes from "nice to have" to "must have". Is it the amount of torque or HP? For example ... over X amount of HP, get straight cut gears; under X amount of HP you are OK with angled gears?

Thanks!

[Nessism]

Helical gears are stronger, however they create side load which is bad for the clutch in our application so that outweighs the benefit for guys with high hp engines, or for guys that ride their bikes hard.

[chef1366]

Helical gears are stronger, however they create side load which is bad for the clutch in our application so that outweighs the benefit for guys with high hp engines, or for guys that ride their bikes hard.

I thought it was a noise thing.

[posplayr]

I thought it was a noise thing.

Nice write up on gears; Helical are stronger and quieter than spur gears but Helical have more friction and thrust

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gear

The angled teeth engage more gradually than do spur gear teeth causing them to run more smoothly and quietly. With parallel helical gears, each pair of teeth first make contact at a single point at one side of the gear wheel; a moving curve of contact then grows gradually across the tooth face to a maximum then recedes until the teeth break contact at a single point on the opposite side. In spur gears teeth suddenly meet at a line contact across their entire width causing stress and noise. Spur gears make a characteristic whine at high speeds and can not take as much torque as helical gears. Whereas spur gears are used for low speed applications and those situations where noise control is not a problem, the use of helical gears is indicated when the application involves high speeds, large power transmission, or where noise abatement is important. The speed is considered to be high when the pitch line velocity exceeds 25 m/s.[5]
A disadvantage of helical gears is a resultant thrust along the axis of the gear, which needs to be accommodated by appropriate thrust bearings, and a greater degree of sliding friction between the meshing teeth, often addressed with additives in the lubricant.

[rapidray]

Explain to me then why in EVERY high horse drag car & motorcycle transmission uses straight cut gears in the transmissions? Pro Stock cars, at 500 cubic inches ae making almost 1500 hp & OVER 1000 lbs of torque & ALL use straight cut gears. Same with transmissions in Pro Stock bikes & Top Fuel & Funny Bikes. Ray.