GSXR slabside wheels on Katana 1100

[John Kat]

Has anyone tried fitting these wheels on a GS 1000 or a GS 1100 Katana?
Any issues with the diameter of the axle or the spacers?
What about the disks?

[posplayr]

Has anyone tried fitting these wheels on a GS 1000 or a GS 1100 Katana?
Any issues with the diameter of the axle or the spacers?
What about the disks?

rear wheel will fit ; front will not; you would need to change forks. Which wheels? I have 88 1100 (slabbie ) wheels.

[kochic]

From a past bike of the month,
marc

http://www.thegsresources.com/halloffame/2009/gs_photo_mar_2009.htm

[John Kat]

From a past bike of the month,
marc
http://www.thegsresources.com/hallof...o_mar_2009.htm

This is exactly what I was looking for!
I'll try to contact the owner to get the details on the front wheel fit.
Merci beaucoup!

[posplayr]

This is exactly what I was looking for!
I'll try to contact the owner to get the details on the front wheel fit.
Merci beaucoup!

The fork tube spacing outside to outside on the GSXR 1100 is just over 5 11/16". The GS 1100ED is just over 4 11/16"(1" wider on the GSXR). That measns you need to account for the 1/2" per side difference. You can only increase the GS rotor spacing by about 1/4" per side on the GS without it hitting the GS lower forks. You might be able to remove 1/4" per side from the GSXR wheels and use stock rotors, but then you would still need to sort out the mounting plates.

The offset on the GSXR rotor is 21mm

http://www.metalgear.com.au/products_info.php?products_id=1822

So you need to find some rotor, that will fit the wheel mounting dimensions above but has an offset that is low enough to sit inside the forks. You will then need to make some custom brake hangers depending upon the calipers you want to use. This is a pretty involved project, but could be made to just bolt on if you find the right parts.

I looked there is alot of meat on the wheel, you could probably machine off 1/2" re counter sink the mounting bolt holes and retain the GSXR wheel and stock rotors. The you just need to make an adaper plate for a new brake caliper. This a pretty common caliper that is still period, that could probably be recessed 1/2" into the wheel.

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=114351

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=168656

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/92-Suzuki-GSXR-GSX-R-750-Left-Front-Brake-Caliper-9F-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem2311094937QQitemZ150609676599QQptZMotorcyclesQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

as has been said, anything can be done the issue is do you consider it a bolt on or not. Machinists ( like Greg B) obviously have alot more options.

[John Kat]

I looked there is alot of meat on the wheel, you could probably machine off 1/2" re counter sink the mounting bolt holes and retain the GSXR wheel and stock rotors. The you just need to make an adaper plate for a new brake caliper. This a pretty common caliper that is still period, that could probably be recessed 1/2" into the wheel.

Posplayr, many thanks this is really usefull information!
The remaining issue as you mention is that the calipers might hit the wheel spokes if brought too close...
I'm very tempted to move forward on this and worst case I could always use the matching GSX R front fork.

[posplayr]

Posplayr, many thanks this is really usefull information!
The remaining issue as you mention is that the calipers might hit the wheel spokes if brought too close...
I'm very tempted to move forward on this and worst case I could always use the matching GSX R front fork.

Well if you do 1st GEn forks then you are doing what I did. See my ED therad

[posplayr]

OK I think I figure it out and at best this is a close squeeze and it will require some luck on finding the correct rotors.


The spacing on the rotors ED (GSXR 5 11/16". and the GS 1100ED is just over 4 11/16").

That means you have to move the rotors in. The have to move in at least 5mm just to keep the rotor of the stantion (for an ED). That is teh minimum, you at least want soem clerance.

Next, teh caliper will also have to move in. You will need to find a slim caliper that is not too thick. The Nissan I showed needs about 1.5" minimum between the inside of the rotor and the wheel. Again this is a minimum.

The 1st Gen wheels have narrow spokes so there is about 2" of space, so when you use the Nissan 4 pot there is 1/2" to spare.

So here is the rub, so the maximum room you have to play with is 7mm to split between the two sides that is

• 3.5mm between the caliper and the spokes and
• 3.5 mm between the rotor and the stantion.

That is 0.140" of an inch. Pretty close. I think the 1st Gen forks are 1/2" wider and the 1150 forks are some where in between.
This is all pretty close and will requires some futzing to get it right. This 6 pot calipers might be even narrower and you could pickup soem more space.

[kochic]

This is exactly what I was looking for!
I'll try to contact the owner to get the details on the front wheel fit.
Merci beaucoup!

Cela fait plaisir,
bonne chance avec ton projet.
marc

[John Kat]

Here's the answer I got from Mark G. about his GS 1000 fitted with 1st gen GSXR wheels.
Many thanks Mark!

hi john,
stretching the memory now, that was a while ago and have done many conversions since then. the gs now has yamaha 600 wheels in it in 17". but yes those wheels were off an 85 gsxr 750 . 2.5 fnt and 4.00 rear ( this one could have been an 1100 one ,not sure ) but the front definitely needs to be a 750 one for ease of fitment and nimbleness for turning in. same axle sizes both ends. you will have to machine spacers to centralise the wheels and you will need a speedo drive of a gsxr ( hard to get a good one ) front rotors can be either zx9 kawa, zzr1100 kawa or gsxr items they all fit no mods required. they all have different offsets and different diameters, so will require different caliper brackets. the calipers i used on front were off a gsx1400, but you could use 6 spotters off a gsxr1000 01 0r 02 ./ or zx9 kawa 6 spotters as well .both tokico items .on the rear i used gsxr caliper and bracket and gsxr rotor . this gets tricky --you need to buy a matched pair as they changed the rotor diameter from 1985 to 1986. and you cant use the late bracket on the smaller rotor and vice versa, but either model caliper is okay. again you will need to machine spacers to centre the wheel . chain-- use the gsxr sprocket & hub and change your front sprocket over to 530 pitch to match gsxr rear. the sizes i used were 16/46 for the road. you may have to machine sprocket carrier face to align chain correctly and clear your shock. easy way is to put the chain on as it is and measure how far off the tyre the chain is and machine the hub leaving 1.5mm of clearance. this usually clears most brand shocks and then just machine a spacer to fit behind front sprocket to suit .
have fun cheers gyro.

[posplayr]

Here's the answer I got from Mark G. about his GS 1000 fitted with 1st gen GSXR wheels.
Many thanks Mark!

hi john,
stretching the memory now, that was a while ago and have done many conversions since then. the gs now has yamaha 600 wheels in it in 17". but yes those wheels were off an 85 gsxr 750 . 2.5 fnt and 4.00 rear ( this one could have been an 1100 one ,not sure ) but the front definitely needs to be a 750 one for ease of fitment and nimbleness for turning in. same axle sizes both ends. you will have to machine spacers to centralise the wheels and you will need a speedo drive of a gsxr ( hard to get a good one ) front rotors can be either zx9 kawa, zzr1100 kawa or gsxr items they all fit no mods required. they all have different offsets and different diameters, so will require different caliper brackets. the calipers i used on front were off a gsx1400, but you could use 6 spotters off a gsxr1000 01 0r 02 ./ or zx9 kawa 6 spotters as well .both tokico items .on the rear i used gsxr caliper and bracket and gsxr rotor . this gets tricky --you need to buy a matched pair as they changed the rotor diameter from 1985 to 1986. and you cant use the late bracket on the smaller rotor and vice versa, but either model caliper is okay. again you will need to machine spacers to centre the wheel . chain-- use the gsxr sprocket & hub and change your front sprocket over to 530 pitch to match gsxr rear. the sizes i used were 16/46 for the road. you may have to machine sprocket carrier face to align chain correctly and clear your shock. easy way is to put the chain on as it is and measure how far off the tyre the chain is and machine the hub leaving 1.5mm of clearance. this usually clears most brand shocks and then just machine a spacer to fit behind front sprocket to suit .
have fun cheers gyro.

85 gsxr 750 . 2.5 fnt

I checked on the wheel sizes:
The 86-87 GSXR 750 is 2.5x18" with 110/80-18
The 86-88 GSXR 1100 is 2.75x18" with 110/80-18 (it apparently was 110/70-18 but those doent exist any more)

since the ED wheel is 19", you are dropping down 1/2" so maybe either will clear??

zx9 kawa, zzr1100 kawa

http://www.metalgear.com.au/products...oducts_id=1831
MD4022X is the equivalent EBC cross reference

Ninja ZX-750 J1/J2/L1-L3 (ZX-7) 91-95
Ninja ZX 7R (ZX750 K1/K2/M1/M2) 91-95
Ninja ZX 7R (ZX 750 P1-P8) (Six piston pad) Tokico caliper
ZX 7RR (ZX 750 N1/N2) (Six piston pad) Nissin caliper
ZX-9R B1/B2 Ninja 94-95
ZX-9R B3/B4 Ninja 96-97
ZX9R (ZX 900 F1/F2) 02-03
ZX 1100 D1-D9 (ZX-11) Ninja 93-01
ZX 12 R (ZX 1200 A1/A2/B1/B2) 00-03
ZZR 1200 (ZX 1200 C1/C2/C3/C4) 02-05

Apparently this matches the GSXR wheels bolt pattern
this rotor is 320mm (vs. 310 for GSXR 1100, vs. 300 GSXR 750) and has a 13.5 mm offset (v.s 21.5 for GSXR 1100) so that is a nice fit, to move the rotor is as long as the caliper will to fit will not hit the inside spokes of the wheel.

The stock ones seems to be about $100 off of ebay.

just checked another , same mount but 300 mm and 12.5mm offset; this should work as well.
GPZ 900 R Ninja 1990-1998

[posplayr]

OK I did some more measurements to check out the feasibility of this mod. I'm basically looking for the clearance between
a.) the rotor and the inside of the lower fork (9.2mm on teh ED) and
b.) the clearance between the back of the caliper and the fork paddles (mag spokes).

The rotor offsets need to be reduced enough so the rotors fit inside the fork lowers. The Kawi rotros offsets allow the rotors to be brought in by 8mm each side (Kawi 13.5mm v.s. GSXR 1st gen 21.5mm).


So here goes................

First I'm using a 86-87 GSXR 1100 18x2.75" wheel with a 310mm rotor (21.5mm offset) rather than the 85-86 GSXR 750 18x2.5" wheel with a 300mm rotor (same 21.5mm offset). See the pictures. The 750 wheel is 0.25" narrower so bear that in mind as we go over the measuremenst I could make on an 1100 GSXR wheel Mark G. warned the 1100 wheel would be a bit tight and we will see it really is.

The rotor spacing outside to outside between the ED and GSXR 1100 is
ED 112.6 mm Cl to Cl
GSXR 1100 137.2mm Cl to Cl

That is a difference per side of 12.3 mm, however we could move the rotor close to the fork lower than the ED which has a full 9.2mm of clearance , So the 320mm Kawi eq (MD4022X is the equivalent EBC cross reference) with an offset of 13.5mm offset v.s. the 21.5 GSXR so expect the rotor to move in 8mm of the 12.3mm separation difference leaving 4.3 wider rotor spacing than the ED. But there was 9.2mm of space so
we are left with 9.2-4.3=4.9mm clearance between (rotor/fork lower) with the GSXR wheel/Kawi Rotor on a ED fork. OK That is good to go if there is room for the caliper on the other side.



On the back side I measured how much clearance a 6 pot Tokico caliper had and I came up with 10.7 mm of which we are going to take off 8mm leaving only 2.7mm between the wheel paddle and the caliper back. A little tight I would say. The Nisson 4 pot might have 1mm more


Assuming the paddles of the GSXR 750 wheel are narrower by half of the 0.25" rim width difference then you might pick up another 3mm. The fork tubes/spacing are the same with on the GSXR 750 as the GSXR 1100 1st gens so they may have reduced the with of the wheel paddles as well. I don't think this mod will work with the 88 three spokes unless there is a really narrow caliper out there. So a 1100 front wheel would be 4.9mm and 2.7mm and with some luck the GSXR 750 wheel would be 4.9mm and 5.7mm (rotor fork and caliper /paddle respectively)


The good news is that you can run a 110/80-18 radial tire up front and get a GSXR 1100 18x4.0" rear that will fit a 160/60-18 which is pretty respectable and not a bit hard to fit on an old GS, only needs a 3/8" offset counter sprocket and a brake hanger arrangement (there are a few options for that as well).

This might also work well with the 1150 rear tire which is only 17x3.5" wide and the same style. The GSXR 750 rear wheels are the same width but taller which helps ground clearance. In this case going from 17R,19F to a 18R,18F you are getting the equivalent of 1" rise in the rear automatic if you go with the GSXR wheels. (1/2 in front plus 1/2 in the rear is like 1 inch in the rear).

Bottom, line for a stock ED and wanting to minimum the hassle factors, this seems like a plausible approach.

You still need:

• 85-87 GSXR 750 F wheel (18x2.5" with axles, speedo drive, 15mm axle bearings)
• 86-87 GSXR 1100 R Wheel (18x4.0" with sprocket carrier, axles, and some some of rear brake arrangement)
• Kawi F rotors (320mm , 13.5 offset)(MD4022X is the equivalent EBC cross reference)
• Nission 4 pot or Tikico 6 pot calipers
• New Brake lines???
• Block off ED Antidives

Custom peices

• F wheel spacers (both sides)
• R wheel spacers (both sides)
• F brake caliper hangers (Anybody got drawings for a set?)
• Possibly rear brake hanger.

This is a little easier that using the 1st gen 1100 forks and messing with the top triple and lower triple stops or anything else on the forks.

In contrast on mine, I have a Bandit swinger so stepping up to the GSXR forks complements them while still looking RSU OE. This is more work and expense on both ends.

[John Kat]

Fantastic research Posplayr!
I did notice that the GSXR front wheel comes with different axle diameters, now I also know that it's a 750 wheel I need.
To come back to the initial issue of roadholding I'm trying to solve, I'm now almost sure that the problem is a dynamic issue related to the front fork's moment of inertia that creates a pendulum effect around the fork's axis.
This pendulum is energized by the defects on the road's surface and amortized by the friction of the front tyre.
A heavier wheel or a wheel of the same mass but with a larger diameter( such as a 19" vs 18 or better 17") will emphasize the oscillation.
The radial tire construction probably helps aswell as it stores less energy than the bias ply tires.
Last but not least more trail emphasizes the "straightening" of the wheel leading to more energy into the pendulum.
In summary the GS 1000 does not have a roadholding issue per se, it just came equipped with heavy 19" cast wheels with bias ply tires that created the problem.
My GS 750 I had in those days did not have this issue as it carried spoke wheels !
The same goes for Sparky's bikes that have spoke wheels in 18".
No wonder my GS 1000 XP like yours with 17" radials goes like a dream.

[posplayr]

Fantastic research Posplayr!
I did notice that the GSXR front wheel comes with different axle diameters, now I also know that it's a 750 wheel I need.
To come back to the initial issue of roadholding I'm trying to solve, I'm now almost sure that the problem is a dynamic issue related to the front fork's moment of inertia that creates a pendulum effect around the fork's axis.
This pendulum is energized by the defects on the road's surface and amortized by the friction of the front tyre.
A heavier wheel or a wheel of the same mass but with a larger diameter( such as a 19" vs 18 or better 17") will emphasize the oscillation.
The radial tire construction probably helps aswell as it stores less energy than the bias ply tires.
Last but not least more trail emphasizes the "straightening" of the wheel leading to more energy into the pendulum.
In summary the GS 1000 does not have a roadholding issue per se, it just came equipped with heavy 19" cast wheels with bias ply tires that created the problem.
My GS 750 I had in those days did not have this issue as it carried spoke wheels !
The same goes for Sparky's bikes that have spoke wheels in 18".
No wonder my GS 1000 XP like yours with 17" radials goes like a dream.

I have the slightly rare 18x2.75" and 18x4.5" 88 GSXR 1100 3-spoke wheels. I'm running 110/80-18 and 170/60-18 on them.

As I have been working on my bike incrementally, making small changes; I'm pretty sure that if you go radial tires and reduce the side wall flex the bike will feel significantly more stable (17" or 18" wheels). The 17" wheels quite a bit more, but then the stiffer forks for 17" wheels will also help.

[ronin1166]

Nice research, Pos!
You just saved me quite a bit of sleuthing and math.

I've been waffling between the '86-'87 6-spokers (love the period look, have both 1100 and 750 sets), and the '88 1100 3-spokers (wider, rare as hen's teeth, have a rear but no luck finding the front to match). Pretty sure I'm gonna go the the 6-spoke 1100 rims.

Good luck with the build JohnKat.

.