GS1150 wheel on GS1000

[salty_monk]

That makes sense John. I did say I'd be surprised if my pinch is 8mm as with the 1000 I have to work quite hard to make it all fit before I tighten it down, the last spacer is a real squeeze.

My 1000 spacer is 12mm the same as yours above (measured on the bike so it might be 12.5mm or something). Taking into account the difference in bearing /spacer length that is only 1mm more than you at 17mm but you cut 4mm from the left side.

I need to measure all my spacers still, can't get to measure the ones that go up against the bearings without removing the wheel but it looks like you may well be running 5mm less in the "stack" than me.

[John Kat]

In the meantime I also took my "1150" 3 inch wheel out.
It conforms to your 3.5" wheel as the B to B is 111 mm, the CL to LH B offset is 51.5 mm ( compared to your 51.25 ) , the B recess is 12.5 mm on the drive side and 5.5 mm on the brake side.
In short, I believe that I could use your data to get my wheel centered.
What got me confused is my 2.15*18 wheel that suggests to push the wheel to the left and not to the right ( I did your floor test to confirm it...)
I'll investigate that further to confirm that the issue is related to the installed width of all the spacers.
Last but not least now that the "1150" wheel is centered what about the drive line? Has it moved or not?
BTW, I noticed that while the sprocket carrier is the same for the 1000/1100 and the 1150, the spacer that supports it is different!
For the 1150 it's P/N 64733-31000 and for the 1000 it's 64711-4900V.
I might order one to see if we find your 2.75 mm gap?

[GSexpress]

BTW, I noticed that while the sprocket carrier is the same for the 1000/1100 and the 1150, the spacer that supports it is different!
For the 1150 it's P/N 64733-31000 and for the 1000 it's 64711-4900V.
I might order one to see if we find your 2.75 mm gap?

That's what I was trying to point out.

[John Kat]

I understand but it doesn't sound like good engineering practice to redesign the spacer and not the hub...
If only we could find a guy who owns an 1150 sprocket carrier spacer and measure it for us?

[tatu]

My GSXR1100 sprocket carrier is 2.75mm (I'll confirm this exact width tomorrow because I've forgotten) wider than the standard gs1000 so that it moves the chain to the left, however, both the carrier spacers are the same length at 47.5mm.

[GSexpress]

The carier is an "isolated" fit. It has room for movement either way. I've noticed that some fit totally into the wheel recess and some stick out a few mm. As long as it's not forced to bottom out in the wheel and crush the rubbers or stick out more than the thickness of the lip it will function and allow for spacing adjustments. There is also a pressed in bearing in the carrier that could introduce some variable in spacing.

[salty_monk]

I understand but it doesn't sound like good engineering practice to redesign the spacer and not the hub...
If only we could find a guy who owns an 1150 sprocket carrier spacer and measure it for us?

My GSXR1100 sprocket carrier is 2.75mm (I'll confirm this exact width tomorrow because I've forgotten) wider than the standard gs1000 so that it moves the chain to the left, however, both the carrier spacers are the same length at 47.5mm.

This is different. A taller sprocket carrier only affects the chain not the centreline of the wheel if the left hand spacer And inner spacer stays the same.

When I put a GSXR wheel on my 750 I ground the drive spacer to allow the Drive hub to sink into the wheel about 2mm. Needed the space as my left hand spacer was already very thin.

I wonder if RenoBruce has a spacer to measure. I know he has an 1150 wheel somewhere.

John - if you do order it I'd be interested to know what you find out.

[John Kat]

By taking all of Salty Monk's measurements we conclude that a spacer has to be added between the wheel LH bearing and the sprocket carrier spacer.
The recommended lenght is 2.75 mm.
Given ( ?) that the sprocket carrier spacer has the same length for both the 1100 and the 1150 this means that we are pushing the chain out vs the original 1150 set-up.
On the other hand if we compare the set-up on the engine side we find that there are different spacers behind the front sprocket.
On the 1150 the spacer ( 09180-25074) is 21.6 mm deep while on the Kat 1100 ( 09180-25052) it's 18.6 mm deep, a difference of 3 mm to accomodate for the larger tires no doubt.
Is this good news or bad news?
2.75 mm is close enough to 3 mm ...except that it's in the wrong direction
The 1150 wheel has more chain clearance than the 1100 wheel but when we propose to fit the 1150 wheel to the 1100 we add even further chain clearance allthough the 1100 engine requires less...
Last but not least the wheel centers for both the 1100 and the 1150 are apparently NOT in the middle of the swingarm...
Taking S.M. numbers for the 1100 with my spacer values the distance from the CL to the left is 132.5 mm and 124.5 mm to the right for a total installed length of 257 mm.
This means that to center the wheel one CANNOT take the edge of the swingarm as a reference...
Fuel for thought no?
Happy Christmas!

[tatu]

The only true point of reference will be the front wheel. I tried that using a wire and a bungee strap but the whole thing was too clumsy for the fine tolerances we are looking for here.

[John Kat]

Quite true but here's where the laser apparatus could help by checking the alignment of the front and rear sprockets.
The problem is that I don't have such a device and don't know where to find one?
There was a good series of articles on a special Kat in the Classic Motorcycle Mechanics dated May, June and July 2005 that showed the use of the laser beam to determine the alignment of the sprockets.
The front sprocket will then become the reference point for our measurements instead of relying on a variable width swingarm...

[tatu]

I don't think engine sprocket alignment is a cock sure way of determining alignment.
As far as aligning sprockets are concerned you can get a pretty good idea by laying a chain over the sprockets and squinting down the length of it, you will see instantly any missalignment. Wheel align first then mess with sprockets.
If one was to use the front wheel as reference without removing the stem, it may be possible to mount a tyreless rim to the front and with a wire/string determine the placement of the rear.

[tatu]

Lasers are cheap and readily available at places like screwfix and such hardware type shops.

[John Kat]

I now measured the original 18*2.15 GS 1000 S wheel.
The bearing to bearing distance is 111 mm and the LH offset is 53 mm ( to the best I could measure)
As the LH offset is almost the same as the std 17*2.5 GS 1000 wheel ( 54 mm) the wheel fits right in with the same left spacers.
On the RH side the last spacer is increased from 12 mm to 17 mm to account for the decreased B to B width ( 111 mm vs 116 mm).
The total "stack" distance is the same for both wheels at 257 mm.
The wheel center line is at 131.5 mm from the LH of the swingarm ( and thus 125.5 mm from the RH)
The std GS 1000 wheel CL ( measured by Salty Monk and using the same spacers) is at 132.5 mm from the LH of the swingarm thus identical in practice.

[salty_monk]

When I did the wheel swap on my 750 I used lasers to line up the rear wheel with front and then used a straight edge and laser to bring the sprockets into alignment.

It's a bit of a pain to do to be honest but it works. When I get to that stage I might get them out and do it with this just to double check the numbers.

In my case I don't think I need to worry about the 3mm extra the 1150 has at the front, that 3mm will affectively be taken up moving the wheel over to the right with the spacer between the carrier and wheel bearing.
If I need more room for the chain I'll put the 530 conversion 3mm spacer on the inside of front sprocket instead Of the outside, add 3mm extra to the spacer between carrier and bearing and take 3mm off left hand spacer or Alternatively put a 3mm spacer under the rear sprocket. (get an old sprocket ground down or cut one out of some 3mm sheet)

Dan

[John Kat]

Dan, I did a mock up of your recommended setting for the 1150 wheel with a 3 mm spacer between the wheel and the sprocket spacer and another 3 mm spacer on the RH side ( I did not have a 2mm spacer handy).
The result may be correct from a maths standpoint but it sure seems strange from an optical standpoint.
The wheel is offset to the right to the point the 140 tire clears the swingarm by about 2 mm while the space on the LH side is about 12 mm.
Have you observed the same with your 1150 wheel?