ram air/ direct flow air

[Baatfam]

Ram air is a myth because it does not exist, for the following reasons:

- Air is incompressible at any automobile speed (I.e. speeds less than Mach 0.3). meaning that the kinetic energy of the air cannot be used to compress the air and raise the static pressure.

- The “ram air” nozzles commonly employed on automobiles tend to be the wrong shape. A divergent nozzle is required for ram air. Straight-profile scoops cannot provide a ram air effect.

Select one of the two types of intakes, warm air, or cold air. Beyond that its just about looks."

Quoted from The Ram Air Myth by Dave Rodabough

[rich001]

Hi bob,

I'm not sure where to start with Dave's assertions. Let's just say I do not agree.

Bob, what are those 2 holes below the headlight on the 2001 Triumph TT600?

I am not sure what peeves me so much about that quote. It just does.

Richard

[jareness]

Ram air

How bout this to Dave's assertions.
1) Stick your hand out of a car window that's doing 120 mph. Tell me if the kinetic and static energy are the same. Where kinetic means moving and static means not moving, I'm thinking that the pressure on your hand is going to be greater at 120 mph than it would be if you stick your hand out while sitting on your couch.
2) At ambient pressure air is compressible at any speed. If it wasn't it wouldn't be possible to move in an airtight room.
3) First sentence says ram air is a myth. Third sentence says ram air requires a divergent nozzle. A divergent nozzle is required to produce a myth?

[Reaper0001]

!he is saying that once it hits the tubes of the pipes and the slides of the carbs the kinetic energy is then turned in to static energy but their is not enough wind force generated to sufficient static energy pressure
7th grade stuff dude

exnay the ram air idea im convinced
back to the original idea a more smooth intake system for the gs with a cone filter on the end will begin fabrication soon
i want to build mabey a fiberglass housing for the air filter under the seat so it can hold the larger cone filter
anyone know what are some good medium sized air filters
is spectra ok what about any other brand or should i stick with k&n best idea
thoughts?
NOT DOING TURBOS sorry guys

[rich001]

Okey dokey reaper,

I think we got distracted.

I believe you need to consider 3 main areas:

1) intake to airbox . Lots of choice there. Without going back to the ram air it probably doesn't make much difference what you choose.

2) air box. Conventional wisdom dictates a large air box ( up to 10x capacity of engine ideally) to give the engine access to a large body of still (ish) air.

3) Carb intakes. Wisdom dictates long runners help torque, Some assert that smaller cross section tubes gives greater velocity ( dare I say ram effect) at a potential for greater frictional losses - your call on that one.
.
Good luck on fitting that into the area currently occupied by the manufacturers work of art.

Watching with much interest on your deliberations.

Richard.

[Baatfam]

Hi bob,

I'm not sure where to start with Dave's assertions. Let's just say I do not agree.

Bob, what are those 2 holes below the headlight on the 2001 Triumph TT600?

I am not sure what peeves me so much about that quote. It just does.

Richard

Richard's explanation is just one of many. Google up ram air and you'll find page after page of facts that explain how and why it doesn't work, (unless your bike can reach Mach 0.3).

I've been down this road many times in car forums and it's just science.

And the two air intakes on the TT600? Just common cold air intakes...because cooler air DOES make a difference.

[Reaper0001]

picture #2 on the first post is a perfect example of all of the intake criteria that you explained

[hjfisk]

Ram air is only really active or effective at speeds higher than say 100mph or more, is what I have been told by a couple of knowledgeable people I know in the field of motorcycle engine building. One in particular has worked for team Youshimura on there race team back in the 90's when ram air[ Suzuki's SRAD---Suzuki ram air direct]was the thing to have , and that was on both carb bikes as well as injected.

[Spyder]

WS-6 IS A SUSPENSION PACKAGE ! ! ! Has absolutely NOTHING to do with exhaust or horse power or ram air ! ! ! People KILL me with this assumption that WS-6 is faster or more powerful.

That aside, I think this Dave guy is way to smart for his own good. I completely disagree with his theory's. ANY increase in air velocity, no matter how it gets there, belt, exhaust driven "pump" (which is what a supercharger, and a turbo is) the increase in pressure from a ram air WILL increase air velocity in the intake system. Therefore increasing the need for fuel. Thus, in his own words creates more power. Of course a forced induction (turbo, supercharger) will create much higher intake pressures than ramair, but still does not make it a "myth".

[rich001]

Hi spydie,

Amen brother.

We're not talking about generating 15lbs of boost, rather we are generating intake waves to harness to increase efficiency. Much like harnessing the exhaust waves in a ''tuned'' system.

Over to you reaper.

Richard

[Spyder]

Hi spydie,

Amen brother.

We're not talking about generating 15lbs of boost, rather we are generating intake waves to harness to increase efficiency. Much like harnessing the exhaust waves in a ''tuned'' system.

Over to you reaper.

Richard

I get it. I'm just not convinced it would work well on a street bike. Talk about what a pain in the a$$ it is to dial in pods? Idk, maybe it'll work great and add some power. Time will tell, The Reaper seems very motivated. I'm looking forward to seeing the results.

Hey Reaper, anything I can do to help just ask...

[Reaper0001]

what kind of plumbing should i use
i was thinking of using stainless steel tubing and welding them together
then making 2 carbon fiber molds of the intake and bolting the two intakes together and then seeing how well the power changes for stock to pods to the new idea!

the idea is to make the 4 intake tubes the exact same legnth then bending them and welding them together in a 4 way then adding an extra short length of tubing to attach the cone filter to
anyone have any experience with carbon fiber?

[Roger P.]

I believe it was stated once that 160mph got you 0.5psi pressurization on a Kawasaki ZX11 air intake.

[Reaper0001]

lol .5 positive psi
ram air is almost ineffective
to get good boost you need a minimum of 4.0 lol
but everything helps
i seriously doubt that a suzuki gs 1000 will ever go 160 mph
but i aim to hit 140 XD

[Toasty]

Wouldn't ram air be really hard to tune for? It would lean out the faster you went...

Btw am I the only one who chuckled at this?