One more thread on an oil cooler mod

[Mekanix]

I like this but how will it affect pressure?

Will you have to shim the pressure releif to get the same pressure in the galley as before?

What about a clogged filter. Now the new remote filter has to have a bypass built in to it.

Could you tap into the cavity and run a line for a top end oiler ?

[gearhead13]

There is a much easier way of doing this. There are custom oil filter covers that I have seen on ebay and other places. In fact I have one on my bike. When the cover is bolted on, the oil is directed out to a -8 AN fittings and braided line that runs to my oil cooler. It is then directed back to the filter cover, through the filter and to the engine.
I dont really need the cover as I have an 1100 and have the ports to plumb the cooler to the passages on the 1100 that were never used until later models. I an either going to plug the passages on it or find an 1150 cover.
You need to make sure that your lines and fittings are large enough to not cause a pressure drop. Not only do these engine eat exhaust cams but have been known for weak bottom end oiling. A top end oiler would be a must IMO.

[Kyler]

I like this but how will it affect pressure?

Will you have to shim the pressure releif to get the same pressure in the galley as before?

What about a clogged filter. Now the new remote filter has to have a bypass built in to it.

Could you tap into the cavity and run a line for a top end oiler ?

It is a closed loop so pressure should not be affected but I am adding a recording electronic oil pressure/temperature gauge so I can find out.

I've been told to shim the relief valve and plan on doing that if I can find a reference saying what to do!
I change oil filters every race so I'm not too worried about the filter clogging. The new filter will be 2x the size of stock.

I've emailed with the maker of the Vortex top end oiler. His oil feed won't work on this motor. I'm thinking of using his head manifolds and adding an oil distribution manifold after the oil cooler to divert some of the oil to the top end.

[Kyler]

There is a much easier way of doing this. There are custom oil filter covers that I have seen on ebay and other places. In fact I have one on my bike. When the cover is bolted on, the oil is directed out to a -8 AN fittings and braided line that runs to my oil cooler. It is then directed back to the filter cover, through the filter and to the engine.
I dont really need the cover as I have an 1100 and have the ports to plumb the cooler to the passages on the 1100 that were never used until later models. I an either going to plug the passages on it or find an 1150 cover.
You need to make sure that your lines and fittings are large enough to not cause a pressure drop. Not only do these engine eat exhaust cams but have been known for weak bottom end oiling. A top end oiler would be a must IMO.

My method forces all the oil out into the external system and maintains pressure. The stock cover has a bypass. The bypass lowers pressure to the cooler. Also, this way I get my external filter which I really want. The top end oiler is on my list. Even my '77 motor had cam galling which I blame on the way the PO plumbed the external cooler. I'm doing this one-step at a time, checking pressures, etc before adding something else.

I need to do it right. The thought of a motor shredding mid-race isn't pretty particularly since is is only inches away from the family jewels and my face.

[gearhead13]

One of the problems with the exhaust cam on these engines is the split exhaust rocker, If you have the valve cover off you will see what I mean. When I ran my 750, I used two sets of intake rockers (without the split) and a stock 1100 cam (same size cam) 1100 and 750 rockers have different spacing.

[GregT]

Kyler, I applaud what you're trying to do but I have some experience of building sidecar motors and boy, there are pitfalls..

Firstly, the 750 plain bearing motors are an oiling problem by themselves...As I've posted several times the recommended fix for STREET motors here in NZ was to shim the relief valve with two 6mm spring washers...roughly equal to a 3mm shim. Mandatory in your application IMO.

Now sidecar race application...the oil pump pickup is the key. You've got to keep oil around it. Baffling of some kind WILL be required. Simple flat plate sealing off around the sump edges with a center hole for drainback can work as can the full swinging gates car style.Depends how serious you want to get.

i see what you're doing to fit a cooler and I think it will work. But doesn't anyone in your area TIG weld alloy ? The chairs have a well deserved reputation for oil leaks....try and avoid adding to this LOL...

[Kyler]

Kyler, I applaud what you're trying to do but I have some experience of building sidecar motors and boy, there are pitfalls..

Firstly, the 750 plain bearing motors are an oiling problem by themselves...As I've posted several times the recommended fix for STREET motors here in NZ was to shim the relief valve with two 6mm spring washers...roughly equal to a 3mm shim. Mandatory in your application IMO.

Now sidecar race application...the oil pump pickup is the key. You've got to keep oil around it. Baffling of some kind WILL be required. Simple flat plate sealing off around the sump edges with a center hole for drainback can work as can the full swinging gates car style.Depends how serious you want to get.

i see what you're doing to fit a cooler and I think it will work. But doesn't anyone in your area TIG weld alloy ? The chairs have a well deserved reputation for oil leaks....try and avoid adding to this LOL...

if you have some pics of the shim and where to shim I'd appreciate it! Same for the baffling. I'm stoked to get feedback from a fellow hack racer.

I TIG (poorly) and have access to a top notch guy when needed. I became quite proficient brazing chromoly doing repairs to my Wasp MX hack.

[GregT]

I'm not a sidecar racer !!! I consider myself sane...I've been turning down rides on those things since 1969....mainly I have to say, speedway sidecars though I've done motors for roadrace chairs too. i have a number of strange friends who race them....The only one I regret now not having a go on was a Black Lightning Vincent speedway outfit.
However - shimming the relief valve .i don't have pics but I'm pretty sure it's been covered here several times. Shim goes above the spring, under the circlip which holds the assembly together.

I've said it before here too but I've worked with these motors in speedway TQ's which were dry sumped. You could see 60lb pressure just above idle and stil have the thing do a big end. The air/oil cooled GSXR's are a generation better but that doesn't help you sorry.

[subid]

You might be interested in this oil cooler

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-Suzuki-Derale-1980-1982-GS750-Oil-Cooler-/360560828141?hash=item53f3199eed&item=360560828141&pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr

[Kyler]

he wants way too much. You can get a 8-tube, double-pass Derale cooler from Summit for $60.

[Kyler]

Here's the final mod. I ended up having a custom filter plate made.

My new plate on the left and the stock plate on the right. The motor side shown.



My new plate on the left and the stock plate on the right. The exterior side shown.



Where it is going (after the filter is removed).



See? No filter.



New plate installed with -8 AN fillings. The #4 header needs to be rerouted to clear the fittings and (I hope) leave enough room for the Dzus fastern that holds the front of the drip pan.



Hoses attached. Not a lot of room is there?





That little can inline on the one hose is a manifold I made for the temperature probe. I wanted the oil temp coming from the motor versus after the cooler.



Here's the auto-style oil filter and oil cooler. The oil pressure sensor is on the outflow of the oil cooler so I know the pressure going back into the motor.



the wiring is a mess - still need to make a new loom.

[Kyler]

Shouldn't the bottom hole have an oring as well?
How do you get all the oil to go though without?

I am picturing an extra groove around the hole with a oring in it.

Daniel

Not necessary. The gasket actually compresses and seals it pretty good. If it does seep a little, that is okay. In the EFE motors there is actually a bypass there. I considered an o-ring but the time and expense to do that didn't seem worth it. 99.9% of the oil is going out the port where I want it.

[posplayr]

Not necessary. The gasket actually compresses and seals it pretty good. If it does seep a little, that is okay. In the EFE motors there is actually a bypass there. I considered an o-ring but the time and expense to do that didn't seem worth it. 99.9% of the oil is going out the port where I want it.

If I'm following correctly you are removing your stock filter and relying on the external one alone? If so any oil bypass at the cover will be unfiltered oil going back to the engine.

[Kyler]

If I'm following correctly you are removing your stock filter and relying on the external one alone? If so any oil bypass at the cover will be unfiltered oil.

true. Consider this. The gap there, if any, is incredibly small. Personally, I think it will be a tight seal. Also, I change the oil after every race weekend. If there is any bypass of "dirty" oil, it won't be very dirty AND if it has metal particles in it, I have a much, much bigger problem.

[posplayr]

true. Consider this. The gap there, if any, is incredibly small. Personally, I think it will be a tight seal. Also, I change the oil after every race weekend. If there is any bypass of "dirty" oil, it won't be very dirty AND if it has metal particles in it, I have a much, much bigger problem.

True, but the stock filter without the leak will filter better than your external with unfiltered bypass. On the other hand an o-ring is not perfect either so it is as you suggest about degree of bypass.