GS1000G mods- big bore and fuel injection

[GS1000G Shopper]

Thanks for the amp tip, I will try that and see what it says. The gloves draw surprised me, but I know it takes a good bit of power to make heat. The battery gloves (even the $170 ones) I tried before never did the job.

I likely have over-thought this, but the fuel pump is the one variable I have not yet purchased and do not want to make a costly mistake here. My gut feeling is there will be enough power, especially with PWM for the pump. If the micro pump place comes in really high, I will likely try to find the 4.5A Bosch version to use.

[Steve]

It has been a while since I have read through all 80+ posts, but keep one thing in mind, regarding your charging output:

That is the rating at some high engine speed, likely 5000+ rpm. Output at lower speeds, the ones you are more-likely to see every day, every mile, will be less.

.

[GS1000G Shopper]

When you hook up the inductive test lead to the batt + wire, turn the key on but don't start the engine. This will give you the current draw from all accessories on the bike that are turned on at that point (ignition, lighting, etc.). After starting and applying a load to get max amp output you then need to add this amount to get total alternator output. This saves the trouble of locating and attaching the clamp to the alternator output lead.

BTW, Northern tool sells a real nice variable carbon pile load load tester for $69 (US). I have one at my shop and I'm very pleased.

I got 0. I think the gauge does not have sufficient sensitivity.

I saw that tool while shopping for a load tester. I need a better battery charger for the shop, and will likely try to find one that does both. In the meantime, have you ever used it to test your bike?

[posplayr]

The total current demand and current supplied can be measured by putting the clamp around the red wire coming directly from the r/ r . At idle you will see close to 10 amp; about 15 amps as you get to 3-4k rpm. It would be relatively straight forward to put some load resistors on to see how much additional current you can draw at all toms without lowering your voltage too much. Just need to measure at idle, 2k, 3k 4 k and 5k to see what the profile will look like. At 14.25v and 5 ohms you would draw an additional 2.85 amps. Size the resistor to the expected pump load

[GS1000G Shopper]

The parts from the machine shop arrived today, and look good.

I think I may have the fuel pump issue solved, just needed to go 18 years into the future (from my GS). Just as I got a set of controls from a Hayabusa, I read on this page where a fellow converted a Yamaha 1100 and used the external pump from a 1999 Hayabusa. The good news is there is a new pump engineered to fit (it looks like a small in tank unit) on eBay for $58 shipped. I have an inquiry in to the seller to get more info.

EDIT
Further research shows the Hayabusa used an in-tank style pump in an external housing. The least I've seen a used one is $150, so this may not be practical.

One other thing I have to consider here is the size of the pump for locating it. Right now, I'm looking at behind the battery. Many of the Bosch pumps are 2" / 52mm, and that is just too large.

[GS1000G Shopper]

The quote from the aircraft fuel pump place come in today, and as expected the prices are sky-high. The "tight cost restraints" pump is $450, and the other one $1150. I'll consider that idea as being shot down in flames.

I drew up a basic setup for a small in-tank pump. It looks like a fairly small aluminum cylinder would work (in-tank pumps are 38mm or 1.5"), with bulkhead fittings for liquids & wiring. One option I may pursue is to run pod air filters, which would open up a good bit of room for a pump assembly, plus make it easily gravity-fed. The in-tank stuff has to be vertical, though and that would be more difficult. I looked at small 1 gallon fuel cells and they are 6x6x12, which is too large. There are some very small fuel cells at Summit, like 1 and 2 quart, that could possibly be used for something like this.

[salty_monk]

It's what this canadian guy did on a KLR... You can see it in the pics just behind the right side cover. Basically a small aluminium pot with the pump sitting in about a quart of fuel that is gravity fed from the tank. He used the stock Versys pump.

http://www.kawasakiversys.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13368

[GS1000G Shopper]

I'm locating the Microsquirt there (after removing the turn signal cancel unit & downsizing/relocating the flasher). I just don't think there will be room there, especially with the master cylinder & reservoir there.

I'm still reading up on Bosch inline pumps, but there is not much tech data to be found for the ones other than the 7 they now sell. A lot of cars used a 2-pump system in the 70s and 80s, low-pressure in tank and high pressure inline.

UPDATE
In some more pump research, I found the 84~88 (or so) Kawasaki ZN1300 Voyager used an inline fuel pump. Apparently spec pressure was a little lower, 36 PSI, but forum posts I've read show it is good for 60 PSI if needed. They are of course hard to find, like the GPZ1100 pumps.

Then I found this thread on a Kawasaki forum where a member claimed the pump was the same as the one on his GPZ750 turbo, and that it interchanged with the pump from a 1980 Cadillac Eldorado. It's a lot of work to run down the various interchanges for stuff that old, but apparently it is the same as an Airtex E2315, which goes for about $80 at Rock Auto. According to Airtex, that same pump is also used on couple of 70's model BMWs (1972-74 2002Tii & 1975-76 530i) and a slew of similar vintage Volvos, some 80's model Fords/Mercurys and a couple of Dodges. Bosch carries no listings for anything that old (BMW/Volvo) in their current catalog and the one I downloaded had no listings for domestic cars.

From what I can tell, the Airtex 2xxx series pumps are roller vane , which does not work well with PWM. Hoping to find an equivalent Bosch (turbine style), I went to the Bosch general website and did a model look up for the BMWs (no pumps listed) and Volvos (did not go through all models, quit after the first three I tried were not listed). I then moved on to the Cadillac and only got a listing for the pump in the tank (low pressure). Next I tried the newest listing, a 1987 Dodge Charger. Again, only an in tank pump. Next was a1984 Ford Escort. Paydirt, an inline pump, # 69404, and no specs for it at all. I found a photo on Amazon (which may not be the right one) and it is not the later style turbine pump- it looks like a low-pressure pump. The only review for it was from 2010. I also tried a 1985 Ford EXP and got the same pump. I could not find a crossover for Airtex to Bosch.

Best bet at this point for a Bosch is their 4.5 amp universal inline pump, part # 580 464 085. It's used mainly on the VW bus and transporter, mid 80's to 1992 or so.

[ArttuH]

I have a spare GPZ pump. Unfortunately I can't give any guarantee about it's condition except it works now

One safe bet would be a Mallory 4060FI. It takes about 4.5 A at 48 PSI. But today's pricing seem to be quite high around $175.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/maa-4060fi

Btw, as far as I know all Bosch pumps that I have seen are also roller vane pumps.

[GS1000G Shopper]

Bosch advertises their pumps as being turbine style. I'm sure the older ones were not. The older Kawa pumps would not be suitable for what I want to do. Looks like they're asking like $200 on eBay for them though.

Also, the part # of the 4.5A pump is 580 464 085. 12mm inlet & 8mm outlet, 52mm diameter x 175mm long. In their euro-catalog, it shows as fitting a 1985-86 Holden Camira with a 1.8L engine, a 1985-92 VW bus with a 2.1L engine, and a 1983-92 VW Transporter with a 1.9 or 2.1L engine.

The next challenge will be finding one at a reasonable price.

[ArttuH]

All right, seems that latest OEM style Bosch pumps are turbine type. Makes sense. However, apparently they still make roller cell pumps as well. For example their whole aftermarket pump family seems to be roller cell type.

http://www.bosch-motorsport.de/content/language2/html/2832.htm

So better check carefully what you are going to get if you want a turbine type pump.

Whoa, maybe I should put my GPZ pump on the ebay if they are going for that money!

[tkent02]

Have you looked at the pumps from the early K100 BMW motorcycles? They weren't very big.

[GS1000G Shopper]

All right, seems that latest OEM style Bosch pumps are turbine type. Makes sense. However, apparently they still make roller cell pumps as well. For example their whole aftermarket pump family seems to be roller cell type.

http://www.bosch-motorsport.de/content/language2/html/2832.htm

So better check carefully what you are going to get if you want a turbine type pump.

Whoa, maybe I should put my GPZ pump on the ebay if they are going for that money!

I saw those, the FP100 was a candidate due to the lower fuel delivery- at 3 bar and 14V it is drawing 4.5A, but as you noted it is a roller cell.

There are two listed for the VW Transporter that are both turbine models, and they are 5 digit numbers: 69414 and 69469. When I called on the 69414 pump (it's earlier in this thread) I found it drew up to 9 amps. I plan on calling Bosch to see what the current draw is for the 69469. Amazon has good prices on these, a little over $70 and $80 respectively. Summit sells them for about $86 and $106, so they are available.

Have you looked at the pumps from the early K100 BMW motorcycles? They weren't very big.

No, but I would think they would be of the older style (roller cell) as well. I'll try to find some numbers for them.

EDIT
The ones for sale on eBay from the K75 & K100 are all in-tank pumps.

[tkent02]

Yes they are in tank pumps, why won't that work?

[GS1000G Shopper]

It is a matter of getting the fuel in to the pump. The in-tank ones use "sock" filters that are usually very flimsily attached. I suppose with the right one you could drill out a brass fitting and use some JB Weld to attach it. This is not something I'd want to have fail though, as it would empty the tank quickly.

A secondary consideration is heat- since they will not be immersed in fuel to cool them, but I am not as concerned about that as it would be easier to overcome.