Why do modern bikes feel so precise?

[tkent02]

My vote is more rigid frames, swingarms, bigger bearings in wheels, swingarms and steering heads, more rigid forks. Better suspension plays a huge part too, a bike with a super plush and properly damped suspension always feels more precise and accuate than a bouncy or harsh one. Same with the wider wheels, better tires and real brakes.


I like the old bikes too, but here is absolutely no comparison in the ride and handling.

[hjfisk]

I for one can say that just changing the front and rear suspension will make a world of difference. I have my 78 GS1000[ Roadkill] with 96 bandit suspension and modern brakes , wheels and tires. and it handles very comparable to the Kawasaki ZRX that I just sold this past spring, But I also have a 80 GS1000 in stock form [except for ss brake lines] and the two don't even compare. I won't say that the old '80' handles poorly, [as few who have ridden with me can attest] but I could ride circles around it on the '78' with the updated suspension.I also don't believe that there is a large amount of frame flex in these older GS's, I believe the frames to be as rigid as any of the newer stuff, maybe stiffer in some instances.

[RichDesmond]

Sorry, it's not the stiffness as I tried .95 kg/mm springs in my GSXR G/H fork.
It helps for sure but it's not the answer...
The triple clamp offset will change the trail of the bike and thus the effort needed to point the bike in another direction.
It has no impact on how precise and taught the bike feels.
More trail gives the bike a truck like feel.
Exactly what I experienced with experiment N°3: a 19" wheel combined with a very small triple tree offset

I meant the physical stiffness of the forks, not the spring rate.
Trail most definitely can affect how precise and taut a bike feels. Not as much as some other factors, but certainly noticeable.

[jwhelan65]

The real difference is "Mass Centralization" this is why new bikes are so refined almost to the point of boredom.

http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/features/122_0905_drawing_line_mass_movement/

[posplayr]

The real difference is "Mass Centralization" this is why new bikes are so refined almost to the point of boredom.

http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/fe...mass_movement/

I agree that the feel of newer sport bikes is more fundamental than suspension changes. Having said that it is also the combination of things that go into a modern bike. But even if you upgrade an old gs you are not going to drop the weight, wheel base and " moments of inertia" down to the level of modern bikes. mass centralization is basically the reduction Of the rotational moments of inertia. MOI is the resistance to changes in rotational speed and direction.

Having maxed of the performance of my relatively stock gs1100ed with sport demons, progressive spings, cartridge emulatiors and Ohlins rear shocks, there was a big leap forward in handling/stability going to wide wheels and radials that you just don't get with the tall profile bias ply tires. I also had a bandit swing arm added in there so I don't know how to factor that put completely but I would guess it is much less noticeable than the wheel/tire upgrade.

[tkent02]

this is why new bikes are so refined almost to the point of boredom.

What, are you riding Hondas?

[John Kat]

Having maxed of the performance of my relatively stock gs1100ed with sport demons, progressive spings, cartridge emulatiors and Ohlins rear shocks, there was a big leap forward in handling/stability going to wide wheels and radials that you just don't get with the tall profile bias ply tires. I also had a bandit swing arm added in there so I don't know how to factor that put completely but I would guess it is much less noticeable than the wheel/tire upgrade.

Hi Jim,
Here's my GS 1000 XP in the latest configuration that I've been discussing in this thread.
You will recognize your wheels
It's a pity that the GSR members here couldn't take a ride on my bike throughout it's evolution to really feel the quantum jump the cartridge type forks ( with the right rear shocks) bring to the roadholding...
Having gone myself from a very similar configuration to yours, I urge you to go to the next step and feel the difference
I must admit however that it will most probably be less confortable...
By the way the article on mass centralization must be wrong when it is stated that "the rotational axis is the steering head"?
What is rotating around what?
Nevermind, I'm having a LOT of fun with an antiquated bike that behaves ( almost) like a modern one at least from a roadholding perspective

[jwhelan65]

What, are you riding Hondas?

I have two

[limeex2]

Suspensions, brakes and frames. I have 3 modern Triumph's. I buy them because of the suspensions. Our roads suck huge and they seem to be the only bike that soaks up ****ty roads. Modern sport bikes are made to handle well on the track also, this requires very rigid frames for better feed back. It also makes for a very stiff ride. GS's imo, work best with, wire wheels, laced up with hd spokes and wider rims. 18" front and back.18 inch front make turn in much nicer. Take every ounce of weight off you can by with. Use the updated brakes here on the forum with HH pads. I converted my rear brake set up with a Fz-1 rear set up with gs550es rotors. Saved weight and centalized mass. Found a place to get parts to weld my own exhaust canister.Saved weight again and looks like motogp, also centralized mass and if it tips over wont destroy my unobtainium Bassani. Suspension. Get race tech valves for the front, new bushings and have them done and set up PROPERLY. Dont be a cheapskate. Do it right or dont do it at all. Rears need to be modern also, they need dampning and rebound adjustments. When all done properly and working together, GS's work great, but a lot of work, patience and money to get there. The end result will amaze you and surprise the young squids.

[jwhelan65]

Chuck, once again you are clueless. Go ride a new Aprilia, Hyabusa or KTM and tell me you don't need to be a rider. Go ahead, ride it hard. Push the bike to it's limits. If you can.

If anything, it requires you to be a better rider. The higher speeds and incredible power require you to be quicker, sharper, stronger, just better.
The lack of suspension problems, poor brakes and carburetion issues allows you to spend more time riding, and less time correcting for inadequate BS.

Old bikes are amusing, new bikes are amazing.

Agreed..... New bike power is hard to describe.

[chuck hahn]

As i said before..ive ridden many new bikes from the early 2000s and newer and not interested in any of them...once old school always old school for me!!!

Thats just my personal preference I guess

[derwood]

As i said before..ive ridden many new bikes from the early 2000s and newer and not interested in any of them...once old school always old school for me!!!

Thats just my personal preference I guess

Really?, enough already post whore...hope this isn't rude, but i just gotta say...
your commentary has nothing to do with "why do modern motorbikes feel so precise"
message received in your first post to this thread, even though it was right out of left field, I just assumed you were drunk or something.
I get it, you are not interested, go post in another thread..... bash a harley, contribute somehow, a joke or some humour even, either that or STFU

[tkent02]

As i said before..ive ridden many new bikes from the early 2000s and newer and not interested in any of them...once old school always old school for me!!!

Thats just my personal preference I guess

Modern bikes feel so precise because you don't like them?

I'm guessing that's not the real reason.

OK.

[John Kat]

Suspensions, brakes and frames. I have 3 modern Triumph's. I buy them because of the suspensions. Our roads suck huge and they seem to be the only bike that soaks up ****ty roads. Modern sport bikes are made to handle well on the track also, this requires very rigid frames for better feed back. It also makes for a very stiff ride. GS's imo, work best with, wire wheels, laced up with hd spokes and wider rims. 18" front and back.18 inch front make turn in much nicer. Take every ounce of weight off you can by with. Use the updated brakes here on the forum with HH pads. I converted my rear brake set up with a Fz-1 rear set up with gs550es rotors. Saved weight and centalized mass. Found a place to get parts to weld my own exhaust canister.Saved weight again and looks like motogp, also centralized mass and if it tips over wont destroy my unobtainium Bassani. Suspension. Get race tech valves for the front, new bushings and have them done and set up PROPERLY. Dont be a cheapskate. Do it right or dont do it at all. Rears need to be modern also, they need dampning and rebound adjustments. When all done properly and working together, GS's work great, but a lot of work, patience and money to get there. The end result will amaze you and surprise the young squids.

I believe you missed my point
Lightening the bike and Racetech valves will go a long way in improving the std GS 1000 BUT...the feel of the modern sports bike ( I'm not talking about Triumphs ) will only come with cartridge type forks and De Carbon rear shocks.
By the way the GSXR 1100 1st gen wheels are WAY lighter than GS 750 type spoke wheels
Here's the bike before the move to cartridge type forks:

And the same with the cartridge forks

Notice that I kept the 18" wheels in both cases

[Big Rich]

Pardon my ignorance John (I'm still learning every day), but what are the white wheels from Posplayr? I've been reading a lot into first generation GSXR 18" mags, but thought they were the only "suitable" 18" mag wheel.