X pipes

[first timer]

are these things fact or fiction

http://www.x-pipe.com/

the website makes them sound like you put these guys on you bike and can be eddie lawson.

what do you guys think?

-ryan

[lhanscom]

I read thru some of the info on it, and it comes across as a scam. Here's why, the site goes into some detail on the 4 into 1, why it works the way it does, and what it's shortcomings are. It's informative, and I think pretty accurate. Then it gets to talking about its solution, and it switchs to promises, and how it's so much better then the 4 into 1. It throws in some fancy terms about thermodynamics, but never actually states how, or why it works differently. In fact the most I could get out of it seemed like it was a tuned pipe for high low end torque. Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see the innovation.

[gsbill]

All drag racers use 4 into ones..Makes one think that they may be the best setup, for racing anyhow. Thought to ponder.

[cbxchris]

Years ago murray exhaust had a pipe that was almost exactly like that. Real popular on the kaw Z-1. I ran one...ran great. This looks like a scam to me. I had read it earlier.

[Anonymous]

All drag racers use 4 into ones..Makes one think that they may be the best setup, for racing anyhow. Thought to ponder.

4-1 is the optimum pipe arrangement for peak torque (and peak power, of course). They are used anywhere that max power is required (F1, drag racing, etc.). However, they inherently have a flat spot at about 1/2 the tuning RPM. This means that if you tune your pipe to peak at 8000 rpm, then you will have a flat spot at about 4000 rpm. Not necessarily a great thing for a street bike or a road racer that needs a nice flat torque curve for smooth acceleration. There are ways to help this, the best being the use of a megaphone after the collector. Properly designed, a meg will fill in the flat spot, produce higher peak torque and provide much better over-rev capacity. There are other things that can be done to eliminate the flat spot. Use of anti-reversion cones will pretty much remove the spot, too. And they are a dyno-proven thing instead of the marketing hooey on the X-pipe site.

Mark

[scotty]

too good to be true etc.

[Anonymous]

Carb bores look interesting! Nascar uses the X don't they?

[humhead]

I decided to be true to my inner skeptic & ask to see scientific proof of the claims made on the website. I'll keep you posted. Speaking of posts, this is my 200th. Small potatoes compared to the stalwarts of the site, but a milestone nonetheless.

[humhead]

OOPS! The ol' mouse finger twitched
Sorry
Terry

[humhead]

Here's the results of my attempt to get some concrete information about the x-pipe. I'm posting my emails and the reply unedited.

Found your website very interesting. Some hard numbers would go a long way towards allaying the fears of people who get a whiff of cable infomercial in your ad copy. $87.00 is a lot to lose if these pipes don't work



Sincerely,

Terry Loftus

Sir,

Hard numbers concerning what?
$87.00 for what?

Glad you enjoyed it.

X-PIPE

I sent the following to clarify.

Hard numbers (ie Horsepower & Torque) measured on a rear wheel dynamometer
by impartial observers.
$87.00 (plus shipping) is what a customer would lose if they purchased a
motorcycle exhaust & decided to return it.

I received the following today.

Terence,

What makes you think that there are no "hard number?"

A brake dyno is joke. You need to get up to speed. You are thinking in the 1950s. A lot has happened since then. But, the magazine personalities want you dumb and vulnerable.

See attached.

You are the one that has no numbers.

Thanks,
X-PIPE

I sent the following

Yes - "I'm the one who has no numbers" - Thats why I was asking to see
some numbers!!!! The only numbers I found anywhere on your site claim an
increase of "18 RWBHP". There's no explanation of how you got this number.
Dyno results deceptive? Okay, how about measured acceleration and top speed?
I read all the "for profit" motorcycle mags & I believe you're right to
question their objectivity. What about Motorcycle Consumer News? They don't
accept advertising- perhaps they could act as an impartial referee?
You're asking potential customers to pay a hefty premium for your product.
That's fine- IF it performs as advertised. Extraordinary claims require
extraordinary proof. You shouldn't be suprised if a potential customer asks
questions before they hand over their hard-earned money.

Sincerely
Terence Loftus
PS: I was unable to open the attachment you sent. Is there any way you can
send the info in a plain text file?
PPS: I found out about your website through an online motorcycle group. I
promised to share any information I recieve with the members of this group.
You can find the thread about your product here:
http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum...ic.php?t=22315

This an interesting approach to on-line sales :?
What do you think?

[cbxchris]

Don`t think you will see any info. You probably are as far as you ever will get. Of course I could always be wrong. Its up to them to prove it. Other manufactors like akrapovic and yosh prove it everyday.

[humhead]

I didn't get any info......but I did get this

Terence J. Loftus,

I find it interesting that you are so hostile, right out of the box. I don't
remember ever speaking with you.

I get emails daily. You are the only one that has this hostility, right from
the get go.

I am sorry that you are not open minded. I don't think that is my fault. It
may not even be your fault.
I don't really care whether you are open to new ideas. I find that it is
interesting that you hang on, so hard, to something that you probably don't
really understand; the UFO (Universal Four into One).

I am curious what your "vested" interest is, in defending something that you
probably can not explain.

Of course the 18 RWBH came from a dyno. You see, I tried to speak the language
of the uninformed (dyno speak). Yet, you didn't like even that. A brake dyno
is worthless in the real world. I don't know anyone who races a brake dyno, or
drives a brake dyno to work. Do you?

A brake dyno is easy to fool. If you want to win a dyno comparison, retard the
intake cam.
If you want to win a drag race, advance the intake cam.
Opps. You mean dyno HP does not equal acceleration?
Magazines sell dyno HP. Customers want acceleration. Do you see a problem
there?
Then, why not test with an acceleration dyno? Well? But, even an acceleration
dyno must be done right. It is a very complicated situation. Wrong numbers
are easy. Extreme variation, run to run, almost a certainty. If you
would/could have read my document, you would know all of this by now.

If you had been able to open my WORD document, you might have been able to
understand a great deal more of what I am talking about. Instead of seeking a
way to open it, you attack me, again, in front of your friends no less. Your
hostility, again. You know that they would be more likely to believe you, an
insider, than me, an outsider.

I find that when someone learns about something that bothers them they go
through 4 stages of grief. The same grief as they would experience when, say,
they found out that the President died, or that a loved one died. I think the
first is denial. The second is anger. The third paranoia. I don't know, this
sounds like the trauma that you are experiencing.

Sure, it is easy to find plenty of people who will deny any new
invention/idea. When Edison invented the light bulb, there were, what, 1
billion people on the Earth? He was the only one that thought it could be
done. A billion to one. In fact, he thought it could be done years before he
actually did it. What a nut case. Even more interesting, even today, top
scientists still can't agree upon how a light bulb actually works. So, what,
100 years later, he is still an idiot, because not everyone agrees with him, on
such a simple thing. So simple now. But, so impossible then.

There is an old saying. Something like the genes of the people who believed
that the Earth was flat, are still with us. There is no real difference
between the genetic make up of the people who lived before Christopher
Columbus, and the citizens of today. Watching TV didn't make their DNA
evolve. Now, I'm not saying that you are a descendent of the "flat earth
people," but it seems possible.

You know what, I don't really care to fight with you regarding your ignorance
of the antique exhausts that you cherish so. I can think of nothing more
fitting than seeing you with a 4into1 on your ride. I don't care. I know that
you don't care. So what? Who really does care? If you seek agreement, there
must be at least a billion people who will agree with you. If that is your
intent. Being an inventor is like being a painter. Everybody hates your
work. You starve. People spit upon you. Until the day that you die. Then,
you were a real genius. Your work is worth a fortune. But, even your
relatives will live in depravity, because some investor bought up your
paintings for pennies. Only the rich benefit from your struggles.

The same thing here. Did you know that George Kerker committed suicide? You
probably don't care, even about one of your prophets (4into1). The story goes
that he was so depressed about his attempts to market his exhausts, that he
killed himself. Then, some big money guys bought the name & what meager assets
he had from his widow, for a few pennies on the dollar. Then, Kerker became a
name to deal with. No doubt the big magazine owners purchased it & nothing bad
was ever written about Kerker from that day forward. Same thing. But,
certainly copying a copy of a copy of a 4into1 does not begin to approach the
effort required to discover phenomena absent from every physics book. To have
faith in yourself, to believe in your own ability to see what others can not.
To work against the flow of "knowledge" of even the ordinary common man. Just
like the electric light bulb, any idiot knows that it can not be done. If man
were meant to fly, he would have been given wings. To spend late nights, long
weekends, to eat and sleep discovery. To have everyone look at you funny when
you dare tell what you know to be true. To have fools attack you at every
opportunity.

Yes, you must be right. You, who have done nothing. You, who probably knows
next to nothing about the old, obsolete technology, find comfort in numbers.
You will always be comforted by your fellow do nothing'ers. I do not wish to
cause you anxiety. There is no benefit to me whether you can dare to go out
into the sunlight and experience reality. My time would be better spent
inventing something else, that will give you grief, because you never thought
of it either.

There is safety in numbers. But, excitement in exploring the unknown.
I've made my choice. You must have made yours.

Funny thing is that I can dismiss you, because your thoughts are "common."
But, you will not be able to dismiss me, because my thoughts stir your mind.
That is your anxiety. Not my problem. I think that you have some inventor in
you, trying to get out. Don't let it. Others will hate you and your ideas.

This was never about my break through in exhaust technology. Sad to say, it is
only about your creative side longing to get out. This is your demon. I have
released mine. I've been where you are. Welcome to the creative "you" that
wants out. I wonder what you will create? Only havoc? Let's hope not.

Please tell your friends.

Live long and angry,
X-PIPE (Why does NACAR attempt to copy such a failure?)

8O 8O 8O 8O

[scotty]

good work in pinning them down.
It is amazing how these con artists always resort to saying that you are the only one. It seems that intelligent questiones from a knowledgable potential customer are considered hostile. But these guys will win even if you send the product back
If the thing was any good they wouldnt have the built in guarantee of profit for themselves.
Thanks for taKing the time to stick it to them. Unfortunately it will have as much effect as our individuasl opinions on(((((oops politics ))))

[humhead]

After that delusional tirade, I couldn't resist. I sent this:

I'm sorry you chose to interpet my request for more information as an attack on your work.
That wasn't my intention. I'm an individual consumer, with no vested interests or irrational attachments, looking for the best return on my money. There's a lot of dishonest people in the world. Sometimes it's tough to tell if an advertisement is truthful or misleading. There must be a way to objectively demonstrate the superiority of your product. Posting the results of such a test would be a boon to sales.
As for your assessment of my character, nothing could be further from the truth. I love learning & hope to keep on learning as long as I live. Science & technology are especially fascinating. I eagerly adopt new technology when it is proved to be beneficial. Your choice of Thomas Alva Edison as an example of a misunderstood inventor is curious. I'm a great admirer of Mr. Edison & his many inventions. I've had the pleasure of working at the Edison national historical site. I currently work in a town (Edison NJ) named after him. His inventions, & the companies he started to market them, made him a wealthy & respected man. He wisely left the mundane day to day buisness of running a corporation to trusted lieutenants who posssessed the necessary skills.
May I politely suggest that you do the same? Sales and customer relations would be a good place to start. Your efforts in this area are counterproductive.

Sincerely
Terence Loftus

[Hoomgar]

I would have some fun here but it is obvious that he read the topic and so would be able to recognize my email address. And I'm not that adamant about doing it so as to create another just to ask some questions.

I think what happened here is you crossed paths with a brilliant mind. People like this often times have a lot of trouble understanding what someone may be saying or asking them because they inventively try to read into what is being said. Some of his comments are so off the wall as to your request for info that it is obvious that he misunderstood you.

It is also apparent to me that what happened is you offended the very inventor himself of his own devices, he misread you and took offense. The rest is all just aftermath.

I would bet large dollars this person is on multiple medications for various disorders and sees a counselor regularly for issues. If not, I'd still bet that he should be. I know the type very well.

Non the less. Do not completely discredit him or dismiss his ideas. He may be onto something here and it could be a great new thing for us all to benefit from. Or not.