X pipes

[humhead]

Well said hoogmar. I'd like to see more evidence of genius before making a final judgement. It's interesting to note that his tirades seem to be an excuse for him to bask in the glory of his own alleged superiority. I've seen this before. It's sad.

[Hoomgar]

Well said hoogmar. I'd like to see more evidence of genius before making a final judgement. It's interesting to note that his tirades seem to be an excuse for him to bask in the glory of his own alleged superiority. I've seen this before. It's sad.

That's the behavior of the person I describe.
Sometimes (actually very often) those who
are of a genius mind have all sorts of issues.

Problems communicating or interacting with
others, especially those who are perceived to
be of an inferior intellect. And disorders stemming
from malfunctions in the brain are also common.

People who fit that criteria are to the general public
impossible to deal with.

But like you said. Maybe not too
It's truly sad that he couldn't see past himself enough
to recognize that he stood to make a load of potential
customers from one of the most popular vintage bike
forums on the web. Had he played his cards right it was
possible. But he folded.

[humhead]

I just received a link to what seems to be a new page on the x-pipe website http://www.x-pipe.com/Scavenge.html More information, but still no test results. I sent the following:

Dear Mr. Campbell,

Thank you for taking the time to send me the link to page explaining the shortcomings of conventional headers. Since our last communication, I've been doing some research . I found your 3 patents - very interesting reading.
A google search for "x pipe exhaust " revealed a lot of companies profiting from your work. Two sites caught my attention - Corsa & Magnaflow. Corsa has a list of 131 magazine references to their version of your exhaust. Magnaflow has 6 pages of links to article reprints. I also found a pdf file with dyno and dragstrip results. Here's the link https://www.timskelton.com/valkyrie/...es/h_pipes.pdf
This is what I was talking about when I asked to see "hard numbers".
For every legitimate inventor/entrepreneur like you, there's a dozen charlatans. If potential customers are a little wary, please don't misconstrue a request for proof as an attack on you & your work.
Unfortunately, none of the referenced articles had test results for a motorcycle. The reason I was interested in your product is because of the behavior of my 79 Suzuki GS 750. After installing a set of 29 mm Mikuni smoothbores, pod air filters & a V&H header; I noticed more power above 5000 rpm at the expense of low speed driveability & lower fuel economy.
I recently acquired a "project bike" It's a 79 Suzuki GS1000. The previous owner installed pod air filters & a Kerker pipe. Once it's running, I'd like to use it as a test mule to compare the Kerker to your X Pipe. The shop that works on my bikes has a dynojet 250. I live close to Raceway Park in Englishtown, NJ. There must be some way to test that will be acceptable. What do you think?

Sincerely,
Terence Loftus
P.S.In an earlier email, You made the following statement regarding Thomas Edison & the incandescent light bulb. "Even more interesting, even today, top
scientists still can't agree upon how a light bulb actually works. So, what,
100 years later, he is still an idiot," Far from it. Edison is revered as one of the greatest inventors of all time & the incandescent light bulb is no mystery. http://home.howstuffworks.com/light-bulb.htm

I hope he takes me up on my offer. I always wanted to do something like this.

[scotty]

Thanks again terrence. i really appreciate your effort in digging out the information. It is extremely interesting.
I believe however that you have cornered a person who may believe he has something special but really does not.

[Robert Corrie]

One reason NASCAR people use an "X" pipe is that they use a "V8", not an inline 4

[humhead]

One reason NASCAR people use an "X" pipe is that they use a "V8", not an inline 4

That's what I was thinking. Here's the next round:

Sir,

I have done it all hundreds of times before.

This is what you get with your 4into1 lies:
"Dear x-pipe,
I?ve got an 80 SECA 750 I bought new. It hasn?t run in about 17 years. No liquids were left in it so that part should be ok. I know it will need a lot of work. The reason it stopped running so long ago is because I changing the stock pipe to a Super Trap 4into1. After I did that, the plugs would foul so badly, the bike wouldn?t run. I tried all combinations of baffles with no luck. I know it needs to be re-jetted, but don?t know if it?s too lean or too rich. I?d love to put the stock pipes back on, but they?re long gone. Yamaha has them, but thinks a little too much of them for my wallet. I saw the pipes you have on ebay. If I read the information right, it said no re-jetting would be needed after putting this pipe on. If that?s the case, it could be the thing I?m looking for to get me back on two wheels. Two questions: 1) Am I correct in thinking the pipe will work on a totally stock bike without any modifications at all? 2) Does the center stand need to be removed when it is put on? Thanks for your time. Rob "

What a choice. Junk 4into1s or real power.

If anything it works better on a motorcycle engine.
The tests you read were on products made by copy cats (who can't understand the patents; they think it scavenges), by idiots (journalism majors with no ethical nor technical background).
Dynos are for trucks that pull trailers over mountains, not for acceleration tests.
The magazine lies live within you. Purge them. Use your own head.
I was joking about Edison being an idiot. The idiots hated him.

X

Hmmm......much less abusive & a partial testimonial. I replied:

Dear Mr. Campbell
In your last letter you said "I have done it all hundreds of times before."
How is a potential customer supposed to know this unless you provide proof?
You also said "The tests you read were on products made by copy cats (who
can't understand the patents; they think it scavenges), by idiots
(journalism majors with no ethical nor technical background)."
I see your point about the 'copy cats'. The dreaded s-word does appear in
the ad copy.
Sales people often know very little about what they sell. The smart ones
have tests & testimonials available for those who ask.
Don't be so quick in condemning the writers of at least two of the articles
I mentioned.
Both of them report results that vindicate your claims. Two different tests,
on two different cars, six years apart, and the results are the same. An x-
pipe system was statistically identical to open headers in horsepower,
torque & quarter mile et. Trap speed was higher! If I owned a V-8 muscle
car, I'd already have an X-pipe. Alas, I don't own a muscle car; I own an
old UJM.
'If anything it works better on a motorcycle engine.' Quite possible.
Motorcycles are different from muscle cars. Some proof of this claim would
remove all doubts.
You then provide the first part of a testimonial.
"I've got an 80 SECA 750 I bought new. It hasn?t run in about 17 years. No
liquids were left in it so that part should be ok. I know it will need a lot
of work. The reason it stopped running so long ago is because I changing the
stock pipe to a Super Trap 4into1. After I did that, the plugs would foul so
badly, the bike wouldn?t run. I tried all combinations of baffles with no
luck. I know it needs to be re-jetted, but don?t know if it?s too lean or
too rich. I?d love to put the stock pipes back on, but they?re long gone.
Yamaha has them, but thinks a little too much of them for my wallet. I saw
the pipes you have on ebay. If I read the information right, it said no
re-jetting would be needed after putting this pipe on. If that?s the case,
it could be the thing I?m looking for to get me back on two wheels. Two
questions: 1) Am I correct in thinking the pipe will work on a totally stock
bike without any modifications at all? 2) Does the center stand need to be
removed when it is put on? Thanks for your time. Rob "
A good start, but where's the second half? Did he buy an X-pipe? If so how
does he like it? Testimonials are the next best thing to test results, if
you have enough of 'em.
You've obviously invested a lot of time & effort to design this system &
secure the patents & trademark. No one else understands it like you. That's
why it's a good idea to provide information to prove your claim. Asking for
that info should not be misconstrued as an attck on you or your work.

Terry Loftus

I await the next round.

[80gs1000e]

Whoa, psycholand!

[Anonymous]

Sheesh! I hope he doesn't give you his next reply in person... 8O ..!


Mitch

[lecroy]

I know the type very well.

You not hiding something from us r u?

They are used anywhere that max power is required

I am not so sure about this. Look at a T/F bike or car....

I agree with him about the wheel dyno. Good for relative numbers but the setup will kill you. Direct drive baby.....

Had he played his cards right it was possible. But he folded.

Well, I for one would still run my 4:1s. I'm just that hard headed.


This is a great read. Thanks!!!!

[Silvermachine81]

He's truely mad.

"Send me your money for more horsepower now....I just cant prove you'll actually get any more"

Most 4 into 1 owners are very open minded because they know their bike is now lacking because of it.
Sadly for GS owners there's not much choice.....

We love our bike and waste heaps of $$$$ on them so if we knew we could get back that stock midrange while keeping our power improvements we would open our wallets in a flash!!

[humhead]

Sheesh! I hope he doesn't give you his next reply in person...

I get the impression that he would not resort to ad hominem abuse if we were face to face. This was a classic example of Ivory Tower syndrome.
"How dare you question me ignorant peon!" That's part of the reason why he's hawking stuff on ebay, instead of running a successful buisness.

Terry

[Silvermachine81]

This was a classic example of Ivory Tower syndrome.
"How dare you question me ignorant peon!" That's part of the reason why he's hawking stuff on ebay, instead of running a successful buisness.

Terry

EXACTLY, I appreciate your continued efforts with this guy (even after he abused you) to try and get some facts.

I think he's painted himself into a corner and ended up looking like a real ahole, when with a bit of proof he could have just sold 100-1000 units to the guys at this board alone.
We dont just sit round he talking for nothing or because we are lonely sad loser's, We come here to offer our experience & learn off our peer's who have been down the same road before and learned the lessons 8)

If these pipes worked they would create a buzz round here like never before, but I for one would never buy anything off a guy with an attitude like that towards a potential customer how is going out of his way to find out vital information before making his purchase

[Robert Corrie]

Plus this guy is selling "100,000" mile ignitions that are a bigger joke than his pipe.

[Anonymous]

Ahhh the misunderstood genius......

What I see is a person who is technical and cannot work with people. I am technical and good at things naturally and to some greater or lesser degree with people through experience and learning. It can be learned.

What I see is a person who relates to the world technically, and so if he gives a technical description of his product and header problems, which was quite a bit of effort on his part, he EXPECTS you to be able to understand his world. He did all the work, it's as plain as the nose on his face (to him) so why don't you understand?

Yes he will lose customers. He's technical, not a sales person. He is a little arrogant... it appears to be out of ignorance and that he doesn't seem to have much empathy for others. Whatever hey?

For that matter, sometimes I write on the posts because I AM lonely or whatever. Most times I write for 2 reasons, one, to be heard, and two, to help others. Some reasons are selfish, some not.

NOW to a few TECHNICAL comments.......

His theory is largely correct when examining the individual effects of exhaust theory. However, that doesn't mean that when these effects combine - that he is still correct. The whole IS greater than the sum of the parts.

Bernoulli's Principle. He's correct. OK, so PV = n RT where nRT is a constant at a certain temperature. So if PV is = to a constant, then if pressure goes up, volume must go down and vice versa. Good so far.

When pressure goes down due to a transition to a larger volume, 2 things happen, a reflected pressure pulse is created, and a lower pressure point is created. Gas moves easier from high to lower pressures so flow improves, scavenging occurs. But we are interested in efficiency. Efficiency improvement occurs only if the scavenging effect is higher than the reflected pulse created (backpressure). Then you have a GAIN in efficiency. Cool. I can't say if headers succeed at this.

His premise that headers stack up pressure pulses sounds incorrect. Sorry. If they stack, it's because the PV relationship allows them to. They get closer together, but again, they have a larger volume to travel in. Think serial vs. parallel ports on a computer. You have more MASS moving down a pipe pass a point when the pipe gets larger which compensates for the slower speed. The engine has to push the same mass out. It just changes speed.....same mass overall....no extra work.

Suggestion.....Read "The Scientific Design of Intake and Exhaust Systems" a book written by some British blokes.

X guy says, "Headers cause overscavenging and loss of charge mix". Duh. Of course. If headers allow better purging of the cylinder and create scavenging, you can get a condition called by tuners "short circuiting" where some of the intake mixture goes straight out the pipe. What he doesn't say is that the correction and common tuning goal for racers is to consider shortcircuiting and adjust valve overlaps as a compromise to short circuiting and peak cylinder pressures. You don't just jet richer. You have to consider the "whole" not the sum of parts.

Lastly, headers are not just enlarged, stepped pipes. They resonate too. Just like his X pipe. The resonation is mostly set by the length of the primary tubes. Another word for resonation is "standing waves". You can actually see high and low pressure waves that "stand in place" in a clear pipe with smoke in it. If you set the pipe header lengths so the low pressure portion of the standing wave sits at the exhaust valve face, then when the valve opens, you get better scavenging. Unfortunately, this is a tuned condition which occurs only at a certain RPM and multiples of that RPM.

Engines have torque and horsepower peaks. If you tune your pipe's "low pressure resonance" to coincide with the torque peak, you get best midrange. If you shift it higher, you sacrifice midrange but shift volumetric efficiency point a little higher up in the RPM range, so you get max horsepower. If you ever look at an engines horsepower or torque curves, the "area under the curve" stays pretty constant, you just shift it around.

After all is said and done, I still don't know enough about his pipe to understand it's advantage over a header* ... * more correctly known as a "tuned header". I'll read more on that. If I can comment on his product and advantages, I will. Neobro, Mark M, Dink, EarlFor, K. Krause among others... are all people on this site who might have some insightful comments to make on this thread.... In my judgement, they respect both science and the black magic "art" of tuning motorcycles....kinda what the guy who wrote, "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance" was driving at. So......some tuning generalities.....

Shorter headers (length from head to the collector) raises the resonance point of a pipe for higher peak horsepower. Watch this when swapping exhaust systems not originally intended for your bike.

Larger collectors (to a point) seem to improve flow. I did this by experimentation, not theory.

Exhaust Canisters must be minimum 10 times the swept volume of any one cylinder to flow well. It's in the book.

Exhaust gasses are compressible. So bigger muffler volumes WILL flow better for a given outlet diameter.

Keeping your exhaust gases hotter will reduce mass and aid exhaust flow.

Setup your cams as a compromise to Torque, Peak Horsepower, or a blend of both. Then adjust your carburators to supply the correct mix with this cam setup. It's what you want that matters.

And the list is much longer.

It is very complex. At least I shared some principles. - Dieter

[Anonymous]

x pipe article

Look at page 26 on Exhaust 101 in this link...

http://www.mustangguides.com/MustangMTG_Iss1.pdf

- Some principles and even mentions x pipes but not clearly......

I want pictures..... - Dieter