Dry sump conversion

[Guest]

dose anyone know of a dry sump conversion ever being performed on a first or second gen GS?

Thanks - Rob

[Steve]

One would have to ask ... why???

But, to answer your question, no, I have never heard of it.

.

[Rob S.]

In any way related to a dry clutch?

I think an old Suzi, I'm pretty sure a Duc had a dry clutch?

[GregT]

It's possible - but difficult. The sidecar guys never found it necessary here in NZ. The roller bearing bottom ends get by quite well on low pressure oiling. It's just the supply to the cams which needs to be guaranteed - and a little sump baffling seems to do that quite well.
The real problem is mounting a scavenge pump somewhere....

I have seen speedway TQ GS's where the gearbox has been cut off and a separate belt driven multi stage pump is used. This works on an inline installation in the TQ where the in/out box is driven off the end of the crank.

[Rob S.]

Cutting off the gearbox - seems like a bit of work. What would be the big upside to make that worth it?

[GregT]

Cutting off the gearbox - seems like a bit of work. What would be the big upside to make that worth it?

It's a very specialised application - using the motor in a shaft drive speedway car. If the crank is in line with the chassis centerline you don't need the OE gearbox.
The sidecar racing guys frequently dry sump the later plain bearing motors for two reasons. Ground clearance - a flat sump lets them lower the motor - and positive and constant oil supply under big sideways G forces.

I seem to remember someone here has mentioned dry sumping drag race motors too - there are potential gains from reducing oil drag.

[ashdricky]

I have a Slipper clutch made using a GSXR basket, and I believe it requires oil, I don't think it can run dry. also what of the gear set? how is oil distributed here?

[Rob S.]

I have a Slipper clutch made using a GSXR basket, and I believe it requires oil, I don't think it can run dry. also what of the gear set? how is oil distributed here?

Home-made slipper clutch? Very impressive!

[storm 64]

Hey Ash, what's been going on? Hows your 550 project coming along? Did you get your transmission back from FBG? Haven't seen you around lately. Keep us posted.

[GregT]

I have a Slipper clutch made using a GSXR basket, and I believe it requires oil, I don't think it can run dry. also what of the gear set? how is oil distributed here?

The pressure fed oiling system remains as OE - incl the feeds to the gearbox. All a dry sump conversion does is remove the oil storage from the sump to a remote tank. The tank is usually shaped so as to retain oil around the feed to the pressure pump - hence they're often used for applications like sidecar racing where there are big horizontal G forces which could lead to oil starvation with the conventional sump.

[ashdricky]

Home-made slipper clutch? Very impressive!

It has been a MUCH more challenging adventure than originally thought. I may release info after I can prove it's functionality, I wanted to spit flame out the tail pipe when i downshift like motoGP. A slipper clutch is one of the things I needed to have for this characteristic.

Hey Ash, what's been going on? Hows your 550 project coming along? Did you get your transmission back from FBG? Haven't seen you around lately. Keep us posted.

Hey Storm, I have had quite the interesting few months, I was overseas doing some work with bikes this past summer, and after returning stateside I took a job with General Electric in Ashtabula. I am just now getting back into the swing of things and completing my workspace. Yea FBG did get the transmission cut for me, only on upshift though as at that point slipper clutch was a pipe dream.

The pressure fed oiling system remains as OE - incl the feeds to the gearbox. All a dry sump conversion does is remove the oil storage from the sump to a remote tank. The tank is usually shaped so as to retain oil around the feed to the pressure pump - hence they're often used for applications like sidecar racing where there are big horizontal G forces which could lead to oil starvation with the conventional sump.

so in theory This may not be that difficult? easier than clutch conversion?

[GregT]

so in theory This may not be that difficult? easier than clutch conversion?

No - i'd rate doing the slipper clutch at 6/10 but a dry sump setup at 8/10 on degreee of difficulty.
Besides the actual sump and scavenge pump, you've got an external tank and the requisite plumbing....

[ashdricky]

No - i'd rate doing the slipper clutch at 6/10 but a dry sump setup at 8/10 on degreee of difficulty.
Besides the actual sump and scavenge pump, you've got an external tank and the requisite plumbing....

in my mind plumbing seems to be easier than machining various metals. as far as the resevoir I had considered using the inside of the swinging arm.

[Agemax]

good idea, but i dont think the inside of the swingarm will give you enough capacity for the oil. i would be interested to see what swingarm it is, and the capacity it holds.
i am guessing that you would need at least a 3 litre capacity

[GregT]

This is a dry sump for a yamaha FZR1000 or R1. Machined from billet at some expense....Note the external connection for oil in which matches the original pickup point. Scavenge is by the external pump visible in front of the final drive sprocket - it picks up from a side extension to the sump and pumps to the external tank.

For what it's worth, I've always worked on the rule of thumb that you need about half the oil capacity again for air as the scavenge pump always picks up air with the oil and it has to have room to separate out. So 4 litres of oil - I'd use a 6 litre tank.

Oh and you don't get something for nothing either...in this application, you must use an electric water pump as the scavenge pump takes the place of the OE water pump....more complications.

Not easy is it.....