Cam Degreeing or not

[zed1015]

Man, that is such good information. Thank you zed.

Can you, or someone else, suggest a cam degree kit? This question may be worth a post of it's own.

Nobody does a complete kit as such because mounting on each engine is different..
Common items are a Degree disc and a dial indicator .
You will need to make up a suitable head mount for the dial indicator and a pointer that bolts to the ign housing for the degree wheel.
Timing figures are usually included when you buy the cams or most can be found online with a bit of searching.
if you do have a set of cams with no known settings you can either set them up between centres and work out the lift and duration then compare them to the closest known cams with similar figures and use their settings or set them up at the stock cam degrees which is usually around 110 degrees as a base line and go from there.

[RustyTank]

Nobody does a complete kit as such because mounting on each engine is different..
Common items are a Degree disc and a dial indicator .
You will need to make up a suitable head mount for the dial indicator and a pointer that bolts to the ign housing for the degree wheel.
Timing figures are usually included when you buy the cams or most can be found online with a bit of searching.
if you do have a set of cams with no known settings you can either set them up between centres and work out the lift and duration then compare them to the closest known cams with similar figures and use their settings or set them up at the stock cam degrees which is usually around 110 degrees as a base line and go from there.

Thanks much for the info zed. I've got a lot to learn in regard to this.

[patrino]

I've used stands like these in the past for cam degreeing, to hold the dial indicator: https://www.mcmaster.com/dial-indica...or-holders-10/

(Of course you need to make sure it's attached to a nearby ferrous piece of metal ...). Or you can fab your own, and find a good attachment point on the head.

A piece of welding rod works well for a degree wheel pointer. Use a set of needlenose pliers to make a loop, then bolt it to the side of your cases with a sidecover screw. Bend the rod to point where it needs to point.

You can make a piston stop pretty easily with an old spark plug; shatter the ceramic, cut off the electrode, and press in a piece of aluminum (round off the tip!) or delrin to contact the piston.

In my experience setup for degreeing cams is a big part of the job! Once you're set up things go pretty smoothly.

Fingers crossed for you!

[rphillips]

On my 16V GS1100E, lower LC #'s meant more torque (lower rpm power) & lower max HP. Higher LC #'s brought more max HP at higher rpm, but with less lower rpm power. I love torque, mine 16V GS1100E I set the cams at 107 LC for intake & 109 LC for exhaust. I don't have a clue if all engines work that way.

[timebombprod]

How does one go about finding the settings for what they want?

Do you like top speed or like to just get to speed quick, I would say the higher horsepower at a high rpm is just one of those great peaks and the torque makes it great for fooling around, and also probably better if you live in a well populated area.

[ArttuH]

New..never been installed.. And thanks to all for the insight, I have a degree wheel,dial indicator,base and stand,piston stops,etc.I,m satisfied it's worth the time and money..I was just curious about others opinions..And if anyone ever experienced what happened just bolting them to stock sprockets,I'll slot the stockers a little or order a set of aftermarket sprockets...should make tuning a lot easier.. Thanks,

In my opinion it's pretty pointless to ask how just bolting on has worked for someone else. The catch is that there seems to be huge tolerances in stock factory timing. I mean up to 10 degrees or so. So even if just bolting on has worked perfectly for someone there is no guarantee that your result would be anything similar.

[slayer61]

In my opinion it's pretty pointless to ask how just bolting on has worked for someone else. The catch is that there seems to be huge tolerances in stock factory timing. I mean up to 10 degrees or so. So even if just bolting on has worked perfectly for someone there is no guarantee that your result would be anything similar.

10 degrees? Really? You would be OVER 1 tooth off on a 30 tooth Suzuki GS1100 sprocket

[GregT]

10 degrees? Really? You would be OVER 1 tooth off on a 30 tooth Suzuki GS1100 sprocket

Don't laugh....On early GSX1100's when changing the lobe center positions of standard cams, I've frequently had to install them with one pin less separation between the 2 and 3 marks.
When the OE inlet lobe center measures up at 118 degrees - and you want 108 degrees - slotting will only get you so far.

There is of course a written note of this given to the owners for future reference.

Later 1100's and the 1150's seem to have been a lot closer to where they should be.

[rphillips]

I must have been lucky, Been so long I don't remember the #'s but neither of mine were nowhere near a tooth , or pin, off. I do remember I decided on 107 IN. & 109 EX., & that gave a ton of torque. I can't even remember what the OEM specs would have worked out to in terms of lobe center. Dang, all that was 40 birthdays ago.

[GregT]

I must have been lucky, Been so long I don't remember the #'s but neither of mine were nowhere near a tooth , or pin, off. I do remember I decided on 107 IN. & 109 EX., & that gave a ton of torque. I can't even remember what the OEM specs would have worked out to in terms of lobe center. Dang, all that was 40 birthdays ago.

I was doing probably two a month in the shop I had in the mid 80's. Dial the cams, a pipe I had made up to my specs locally and rejet the carbs.

The worst I remember was an inlet at 122 deg LC.

[rphillips]

Do you remember what the Suzuki cam timing specs worked out to in terms of Lobe center. I remember having one of mine up to 115 or 117, but that raised the max HP rpm. way higher than I was comfortable with & lowered the torque quite a bit.

[GregT]

Do you remember what the Suzuki cam timing specs worked out to in terms of Lobe center. I remember having one of mine up to 115 or 117, but that raised the max HP rpm. way higher than I was comfortable with & lowered the torque quite a bit.

They varied a lot. All somewhere close to 118 inlet and 110 - 112 exhaust. I'd move them to 106/108 for road use. Huge torque increase in the midrange.
Much more suitable for NZ road conditions. And pretty good on short roadrace circuits too.

[RustyTank]

GregT, I just PM'd you.

[Blower]

http://www.aperaceparts.com/tech/cope.html

[bwringer]

This is a very basic thing, and I'm sure y'all know this already, but it caused an embarrassing amount of confustication and bebotherment the first time I helped a friend degree a set of cams in his Kawasaki GPZ.

Some degree wheels have their primary markings in a full 360 degree circle, some in two 180 degree halves, and some count up and back down every 90 degrees.

If the blurry, yellowed, stained, brittle, seventh-generation photocopied instructions from the early '80s you are working from used one system and the degree wheel you happen to have on hand uses another, you will need to be comfortable "translating", or at least make sure you're consistently using the correct set of markings.

It's also one of those times it's important to understand "why" you're doing something rather than just following the numbers in the instructions. No valves or camshafts were harmed that day, only our foreheads from the resounding double smack when the light finally dawned.