Home-grown GS (X) 1100 turbo *DYNOSHEET*

[marcovandevelde]

Hi Jkoehorst,
According to a report from Garrett the VNT needs .3 gpm of oil at 30psi min. at full power. The GSX will produce more than that (around 40psi) at full tilt with the GS750 pumpgears.
The numbers you mention are probably what the car produces, but there is a small orifice (inlet restriction) inside the turbohousing that prevents oil overpressure.

I'll maybe go to the turbomeet in Germany, but not sure yet.

German turbomeet: http://kallis-bikertreff.de/Pfingsttreffen.htm

There will probably be a turbomeet in the NL at Zeist in September that I will be attending.

Greetz, Marco.

[lecroy]

I did some testing on this last summer and I could hit 30PSI, but not near the flow rates even with the over driven pump. Marc had suggested that when the turbo spins up that the flow rates go up. He was using a clear return line and could watch the oil flow. I ran my test a second time and indeed this was the case. I still could not meet the flow rates listed for my turbo, but it was much closer.

Lecroy, Can you tell me, as an experienced turbo-rider, what is the best way to launch a turbobike? ... Laughing Also, do you use water-injection? If so, how do you determine the spraynozzle you need?

If I told you everything I know, you would no nothing more than you know now. I made a few DVDs last summer of some of the ProStar events. All bikes. All launches, closeup. A lot of funny bikes. Maybe I can compress some of this down for people to watch on-line. Do you have a high speed connection?

I used to use water injection (water mixed with methanol) but now I just run methanol as the main fuel. I water only as a safty measure, not to try and run higher pressures. I melted the first engine I built with a turbo after the line to the wastegate failed. That was a sad day and once the valves warped the fuel was dumping into the hot exhaust and igniting. I was told that fire was coming out like crazy. Burned my leg. Melted the plugs into the head. I had mine setup more as a fuel dump system. Above the popoff setpoint, I dumped a major amount of mix into the carb. Now days you see this line is steel over teflon on my bike.

Will be interesting to see your dyno run.

[Anonymous]

Ok, I never knew the oil pressure was that high, that's nice. No need for an extra pump.

Someone know if there a difference in the oiling system for a 2-valve or a 4-valve GS?

The turbomeet in germany is only 20 miles from here .

[marcovandevelde]

Hi Lecroy,
To be totally honest, I THINK I saw it hit 40 psi on max. revs (9.500rpm). When you're propelled forward with warp factor 9 you don't have much time nor interest to intensively watch the gauges, I think you know what I mean. :twisted: There are always issues about the oil pressure and flow. People are using Rajays for ages with good results, but they seem to have less appetite for oil than the new ones(?). Anyway, it works fine and I decided that in case I blow the turboseals I'll just buy another one (cheap as heck) and install an external oilpump.

Yeh, I do have a hig-speed connection so please KEEP THEM MOVIES COMING!

Greetz, Marco.

[marcovandevelde]

I melted the first engine I built with a turbo after the line to the wastegate failed. That was a sad day and once the valves warped the fuel was dumping into the hot exhaust and igniting. I was told that fire was coming out like crazy. Burned my leg. Melted the plugs into the head.

8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O

Good thing I've got a blowoff to protect the engine somewhat..

Jkoehorst,
I think you can look for that oil-difference-question in the Search-option. As far as I know, the aircooled 4-valve GS(X) 750s use slide-bearings and thus need higher pressure than the roller bearing 2 valve GS 750 & GS 1000- 4 valve GS(X)1100 & GS(X) 1150.

What's your ride?

Greetz, Marco.

[Anonymous]

Jkoehorst,
I think you can look for that oil-difference-question in the Search-option. As far as I know, the aircooled 4-valve GS(X) 750s use slide-bearings and thus need higher pressure than the roller bearing 2 valve GS 750 & GS 1000- 4 valve GS(X)1100 & GS(X) 1150.

What's your ride?

Greetz, Marco.

Yes, I will take a look into the archives of this site. I'm sure there is some info about this subject.
EDIT: Found it: 1.42 psi to 7.11 psi (79-82 550 specs) (according to the manual)

I have a ?79 GS550 and a ?80 GS850. The 850 has 25k (miles) on it and I would like to turbocharge that one. (I can almost see people thinking ?why a turbocharge a 550 lbs GS850????, well that?s called hobby?)
But I?m running everytime in oiling problems. My current plan is to use an external pump (Weldon GP302) fed from the main oil gallery and increase the output of the generator.

[marcovandevelde]

But I?m running everytime in oiling problems.

What problems, you mean on the std. engine or for a turbo?

Turbo-ing a GS850 isn't so stupid at all, it's roomy and strong. I'd lighten it as far as possible by putting lightweight wheels in (off a GS500 or FZR600?) and by junking the heavy brakes, chain, fenders etc. AND put some decent brakes on it, YOU NEED THEM WITH A TURBO!
The 850 is basically a bored-out GS750 with shaft-drive put into a GS 1000 frame. I'd put something like a 110 hp VW Golf TDI turbo on it, and keep the rest of the engine standard running 7 psi, or 10 psi with waterinjection. It could make something like 120-130hp... You need to put an all copper headgasket in and put an extra steel plate in the clutch. The 750/850 already have the uprated pumpgears, 'cos my set came off a 2v- 750.

Fab a plenum and linkpipe and you're there.

Sorry, I always get a bit carried away, but that's basically it 8) . Do you have CV carbs or the sliders? You will need to change to CVs to be able to pressurise.

If you want you can come over to Bergen op Zoom and have a look at my bike.

Marco.

[Anonymous]

Hi Jkoehorst,
According to a report from Garrett the VNT needs .3 gpm of oil at 30psi min. at full power. The GSX will produce more than that (around 40psi) at full tilt with the GS750 pumpgears.
The numbers you mention are probably what the car produces, but there is a small orifice (inlet restriction) inside the turbohousing that prevents oil overpressure.

I'll maybe go to the turbomeet in Germany, but not sure yet.

German turbomeet: http://kallis-bikertreff.de/Pfingsttreffen.htm

There will probably be a turbomeet in the NL at Zeist in September that I will be attending.

Greetz, Marco.

Marco, if the restriction (orifice) is in-line with the inlet then it is a volume restricion and the pressure remains the same. If it is relief valve, then that would limit the pressure.

Just a small point, but thought you may be interested.

[lecroy]

Marco, if the restriction (orifice) is in-line with the inlet then it is a volume restricion and the pressure remains the same. If it is relief valve, then that would limit the pressure.

Agree, if things were allowed to equalize. Think of your water hose. Sure the house water pressure may be at 50 pounds, but the outlet of the hose is at atmosphere. The turbo is the same. The oil outlet is vented to the crank, which is normally atmospheric pressure (or maybe even lower). May flow meters work this way. Using a constant orifice size and measuring the differential pressure across it.

Yeh, I do have a hig-speed connection so please KEEP THEM MOVIES COMING!

Ok, I will see if I can rip you some today. Be sure to watch their feet.

To be totally honest, I THINK I saw it hit 40 psi on max. revs (9.500rpm).

This could be. I was using 20W50 and was testing at 5000RPM from what I remember on the 2-step in my second test. The turbo will run about 2 PSI on the 2-step.

If you look at my rajay section, you can see the two different bearings that were used. One single feed and one dual. I am not so sure that the flow rates were not different for the two. My testing was all on the single feed. The lack of oil would do more damage than seals. And in my cast the parts are getting harder to come by. Kelley and Turbonetics have been very good about shipping me parts, but it takes a while.

Good thing I've got a blowoff to protect the engine somewhat..

I met a guy who was trying to make a very fast high volume valve for when the engine would lean out. The back pressure was enough to break the compressor housing of the turbocharger. I guess he used to buy the plates by the dozen. I don't have anything on my bike to protect it other than just flooding the damm thing with fuel.

[Anonymous]

What problems, you mean on the std. engine or for a turbo?
...

The demands for the turbo are quite high, 40psi. My standard oil system wil never be able to produce this pressure and its hard to find a suitable external oilpump with this spec's (compact, low electric current, temps up to 250 degrees Fahrenheit).

...
Turbo-ing a GS850 isn't so stupid at all, it's roomy and strong. I'd lighten it as far as possible by putting lightweight wheels in (off a GS500 or FZR600?) and by junking the heavy brakes, chain, fenders etc. AND put some decent brakes on it, YOU NEED THEM WITH A TURBO!
The 850 is basically a bored-out GS750 with shaft-drive put into a GS 1000 frame. I'd put something like a 110 hp VW Golf TDI turbo on it, and keep the rest of the engine standard running 7 psi, or 10 psi with waterinjection. It could make something like 120-130hp... You need to put an all copper headgasket in and put an extra steel plate in the clutch. The 750/850 already have the uprated pumpgears, 'cos my set came off a 2v- 750.

Fab a plenum and linkpipe and you're there.

Sorry, I always get a bit carried away, but that's basically it 8) . Do you have CV carbs or the sliders? You will need to change to CVs to be able to pressurise.

If you want you can come over to Bergen op Zoom and have a look at my bike.

Marco.

"roomy and strong" that is exactly what I liked about it . My first try will be with a K03 turbo on the front. These things produce full boost at 1800rpm on a VW golf 1.8...
I already have the CV carbs. Correction, 'HAD', they made some room for a fuel injection intake system :roll: (although not running, the hardware is there but the computer not yet). I hate carbs and this is a good reason to dump them completely.

I will remember the brake-tip and start looking for something bigger.

[Anonymous]

I already have the CV carbs. Correction, 'HAD', they made some room for a fuel injection intake system :roll: (although not running, the hardware is there but the computer not yet). I hate carbs and this is a good reason to dump them completely.

Good decision! I'm just curious, what kind computer you are going to use?

I can recommend Megasquirt, at least if electronics doesn't scare you too much and if you don't want to spend too much money.

There is some information about my setup, if you are interested:

http://www.students.tut.fi/~heinala/mopo/en_summary.html

Check also Finnish pages for more pictures:

http://www.students.tut.fi/~heinala/mopo/

Arttu

[Anonymous]

...
Good decision! I'm just curious, what kind computer you are going to use?

I can recommend Megasquirt, at least if electronics doesn't scare you too much and if you don't want to spend too much money.

There is some information about my setup, if you are interested:

http://www.students.tut.fi/~heinala/mopo/en_summary.html

Check also Finnish pages for more pictures:

http://www.students.tut.fi/~heinala/mopo/

Arttu

The computer will be one with fuel & ignition combined from http://kms.vankronenburg.nl/
It will cost e850,- but it saves a lot of time in building and testing. And it has some nice features like a waste gate controller with a TPS mapping .

I was building a computer myself from scratch but that will take me too much time, so I skipped that part.

Your system looks nice! You cut open an original carb assembly for those throttle body?s?

Car parts are my favourites, lots of choice. My injectors are 14Ohm, 133cc/min. from a daihatsu and the fuel pump is a standard Bosch part.

Currently I don?t have time to build it though .

[Anonymous]

Ready-made controller will definately save some time. And at least you can bug somebody with your problems, if you face any, just because you have paid for it.

I just replaced original carb setup with throttle body setup from Kawasaki.

Arttu

[marcovandevelde]

DYNOSHEET

Hi Guys,
Finally got round to dyno-ing the beast for the very first time despite it still not being completely finished.

I was very nervous incase I blew it up and even more nervous incase it would only give 100 hp in front of the crowd at a Streetfighter show I dynoed it at.

I shouldn't have worried... 160.6 Hp at 7250 rpm and 157 Nm from 3800 rpm till 7250 rpm. (at the back wheel)
If you look at the sheet you can see why I had trouble with the clutch even after I fitted a lockup.. The torque bulge is enourmous, starting very early in the revrange.

That's what a VNT turbo does for you, ladies and gentlemen.

It ran very rich, so rich even that it wouldn't go above 7250 rpm, so there is 2000 more rpm to go. I beleive the floatbowls were overflowing at that point so I need to lower the floats a bit. I've no doubt whatsoever that I will make over 200 hp soon.

Greetz, Marco.

[KEITH KRAUSE]

That's a lot of power Marco! :twisted: Please be careful with it.