Still Won't Idle! I think I'm done.

[UncleMike]

Mike, if retorquing doesn't help I'd be happy to go through the carbs for you gratis if you think they might be the culprit.

Billy, that's a hell of an offer. The GSR, and more often than not you, never cease to amaze me.

[pano]

Mike I am not sure what your bikes issue is but I wanted to add to the bench synching comments.

I attempted to synch my carbs a couple weeks back using a Carb synch tool and got them all fouled up. This weekend I finally got around to removing and bench synched my carbs using this instruction.

http://www.xs11.com/tips/maintenance/maint35.shtml

Today I fired the bike up and the carbs were in near perfect synchronization although I had to turn the idle knob down. I only made VERY minor adjustments using the carb synch tool.

My point is it sure didn't take much to throw the carbs out of wack and make the bike run like crap.

[dpep]

Here's a nice little re-cap:

The bike will start very quickly with full choke and idle at 900rpms. The rpms will then start to climb and reach around 2900rpms and stay there for about ten seconds, at which point the rpms will begin to fall until the bike stalls. No amount of messing with the choke will prevent her from stalling.

If I walk away for about 2 minutes or so and then attempt to start it again, she'll start right away with no choke and idle at 1100rpms, albeit not very strongly.

Now, when she's beginning to stall, I can prevent it by giving her light throttle and holding the throttle on for about a minute or two, at which point she'll idle on her own with no choke. But again, it's not confidence-inspiringly strong.

When riding, if I pull in the clutch and hold it, she'll often stall out on me. More often than not, actually, until I get her warmed up.

When she's FULLY warm, her idle jumps about 800rpms to 2000.

Things I've done:

Cleaned and rebuilt the carbs. New o-rings and gaskets. All floats set to 22.5mm.

Replaced the R/R with a Honda, charging numbers are spot-on.

New sealed battery.

Bandit coils, Accel wires, new NGK caps.

All new filters and plugs.

Cleaned connections.

None of the above changed things in the least.

Please guys,...please. It's a year today since I got the bike and I'm starting to get a little frustrated.

~Mike

If your ignition were breaking up I would expect that to be more likely at high rpms, not low.

Did you do compression and leakdown tests on the cylinders? Unless your valves and/or rings are completely shot this has to be a gas/air mixture problem.

When the gas to air mixture is too low combustion will cease. It will also cease when the ratio of gas to air is too high, but that would leave you with wet or sooty plugs. You did not report any backfiring, correct?

The question then is whether there is not enough gas in the mixture, or there is too much air. My gut feeling is too much air and you would need to figure out where it is getting into the system.

Do you have a stock airbox on this bike and is it properly sealed all around and are the intake boots from the box to the carbs all properly sealed? Are you absolutely certain there is no air getting past the intake boots from the carb to the engine?

You might want to do some things to rule out fuel starvation. Do you have a Prime setting on your petcock? If you do, have you tried your startup routine putting it on Prime a few minutes before and leaving it there through the warmup? One thing you can do if you are not on prime is after it stalls immediately drop your float bowls to see if they are holding gas.

You say that when it is fully warmed up it idles at 2000 rpm. You should be synching your carbs with the engine warmed up. After it is fully warmed up and idling at 2000, if you go riding and pull in the clutch, does it stall then?

Is there a certain speed or rpm level above which the bike performs normally?

[dpep]

Here's a nice little re-cap:

The bike will start very quickly with full choke and idle at 900rpms. The rpms will then start to climb and reach around 2900rpms and stay there for about ten seconds, at which point the rpms will begin to fall until the bike stalls. No amount of messing with the choke will prevent her from stalling.

If I walk away for about 2 minutes or so and then attempt to start it again, she'll start right away with no choke and idle at 1100rpms, albeit not very strongly.

Now, when she's beginning to stall, I can prevent it by giving her light throttle and holding the throttle on for about a minute or two, at which point she'll idle on her own with no choke. But again, it's not confidence-inspiringly strong.

When riding, if I pull in the clutch and hold it, she'll often stall out on me. More often than not, actually, until I get her warmed up.

When she's FULLY warm, her idle jumps about 800rpms to 2000.

Things I've done:

Cleaned and rebuilt the carbs. New o-rings and gaskets. All floats set to 22.5mm.

Replaced the R/R with a Honda, charging numbers are spot-on.

New sealed battery.

Bandit coils, Accel wires, new NGK caps.

All new filters and plugs.

Cleaned connections.

None of the above changed things in the least.

Please guys,...please. It's a year today since I got the bike and I'm starting to get a little frustrated.

~Mike

If your ignition were breaking up I would expect that to be more likely at high rpms, not low.

Did you do compression and leakdown tests on the cylinders? Unless your valves and/or rings are completely shot this has to be a gas/air mixture problem.

When the the gas to air mixture is too low combustion will cease. It will also cease when the ratio of gas to air is too high, but that would leave you with wet or sooty plugs. You did not report any backfiring, correct?

The question then is whether there is not enough gas in the mixture, or there is too much air. My gut feeling is too much air and you would need to figure out where it is getting into the system.

Do you have a stock airbox on this bike and is it properly sealed all around and are the intake boots from the box to the carbs all properly sealed? The intake boots from the carb to the engine?

You might want to do some things to rule out fuel starvation. Do you have a Prime setting on your petcock? If you do, have you tried your startup routine putting it on Prime and leaving it there through the warmup? One thing you can do if you are not on prime is after it stalls immediately drop your float bowls to see if they are holding gas.

You say that when it is fully warmed up it idles at 2000 rpm. You should be synching your carbs with the engine warmed up. After it is fully warmed up and idling at 2000, if you go riding and pull in the clutch, does it stall then?

Is there a certain speed or rpm level above which the bike performs normally?

P.S. A Loose fitting head could certainly be the avenue of excess air....and then seal it out as the metal heated and expanded. You might expect to catch that in a compression/leakdown test as well. Retorquing is about the easiest thing for you to do. I hope that is it.

[Pharkmeh]

I've got a Clymer's. Plus Keith gave me a pretty good tutorial a few posts back. Just need to find the torque specs in the manual.

Thanks Billy. I appreciate you sticking with this madness.

Mike

we all are m8


I check this thread just for all the tips...

oohhh - and to see if you ever find the problem lol

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p.s. - found a new avi fur ya

[Tom MLC]

Mike, I gotta be honest. I didn't read the whole thread. After about three pages I started to get glassey eyed. I will tell ya I had a problem with my petcock, which I never would have found if I hadn't switched to translucent tubing. Seems like I had some fuel leaking through the petcock diaphram into the vacuum line. Not a lot, but enough to affect the carb performance. I eventually replaced the petcock to solve my problem.

For what it's worth, here's the thread I started:

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=100009

Point is, many of the suggestions you have been getting are from people who may overlook this clue because they have black fuel hoses. I kowtow to the GURU's on this site who surely know more than me. But you may never know if the petcock is working properly if you are using traditional black tubing.

If you have the resources, find some clear tubing that is rated for gasoline and high temps. Then you can see if you have gas pulling through the petcock diaphram through the vacuum circuit.

At the very least, you can eliminate the petcock as the probable cause.

[KEITH KRAUSE]

Sure is. Keith mentioned it as well. Gonna grab a torque wrench tomorrow and go for it.

Now, there is a general consensus as to what type of torque wrench is best, right?*

Mike

Don't get me going! Anybody with at least a dried up old Uni-filter for a brain knows the right answer to that one.:razz:

[UncleMike]

Don't get me going! Anybody with at least a dried up old Uni-filter for a brain knows the right answer to that one.:razz:

Well, the deed is done. Thank you for the suggestion and the advice.

You're gonna hate me, but I got a beam-type torque-wrench. It was the only one in town that went down low enough to give me a 5 and 10ft.-lb. reading.
Got the job done!

Thanks again,
Mike

[Jethro]

Don't get me going! Anybody with at least a dried up old Uni-filter for a brain knows the right answer to that one.:razz:

Here is my answer to all the most pressing tech issues on the GSR:
CLICKER TYPE!!! CHAIN!!! DINO OIL!!!

[KEITH KRAUSE]

Well, the deed is done. Thank you for the suggestion and the advice.

You're gonna hate me, but I got a beam-type torque-wrench. It was the only one in town that went down low enough to give me a 5 and 10ft.-lb. reading.
Got the job done!

Thanks again,
Mike

You shouldn't need a wrench that goes down to 5 or 10 ft/lb. Your head must be torqued more than that. Did you find torque recommendation? Where was the info and how much torque?

[KEITH KRAUSE]

Oh. Just noticed your other thread. Didn't have time to read much (off to work) but it sounds like you have help. Sorry if it seems complicated. It'll be worth it if it fixes your problem though.
At least you're learning too. Hope to hear good new when I get home.

[Nessism]

Beam type torque wrenches are the most reliable since they are the simplest. Just make sure the pointer is aimed at zero and you are good forever. The key to using one is to pay close attention to the torque value reading and stop at the appropriate time. I have a couple of Snap-On dial type torque wrenches which is the same in that you need to stop when need be (no click) and they work great.

[UncleMike]

Yup, found the values in the manual. I made the other thread because it's technically a separate question, and should be easier for people to find when searching.

The three 6mm bolts required 7ft.-lbs., which is why I went with the beam.

You're absolutely right Keith, and I've been thinking about that a lot. I desperately just want the bike to run strong and correct, but man I do enjoy learning all this stuff.

Thanks again for all your help.

~Mike

[KEITH KRAUSE]

So what's happening? Any progress?

[UncleMike]

So what's happening? Any progress?

I've re-torqued the head bolts and cleaned and re-benchsynched the carbs. I'm cleaning the intake ports now to eliminate any chance of a leak and Brian was kind enough to send me new o-rings for the choke passages.

I'm slapping everything back together tomorrow and we'll see.

Pray for me.

Thanks,
~Mike