Custom Painting Question(s)

[txironhead]

I can understand why he preferred Imron. When I was 12, my dad painted his '63 Ford Falcon van with blue Imron. When I was 13, a welding truck pulled out in front of us and demolished the front end (and my right arm in the process, 27" scar to prove it). My dad threw the van in the back yard because he can't throw anything away, and 18 years later the only rust on that van is where the sheetmetal bent enough to crack the paint.

Ironically, the force of the impact was enough to make the right headlight parallel to the right side of the van, but it didn't break the headlight.

[madjack57754]

Self etching primer is as close to the toyota system that the home guy will get with todays paints.

Schweisshund... The "clear" first is a sealer to prevent the dye in the bondo from bleeding through the primer and creating blotches in the top coat


Painted lots of cars and motorcycles through out the years . Best advice I can give is that most decent size towns have at least one refinish supply center. The counter guys are usually ex-body shop workers and have first hand info on what is needed. I've never been steered wrong by asking the guys that sell automotive paint and supplies for a living what I neededwhen I didn't know what I was up against

[txironhead]

Never heard of spraying clear first, always used sealer primer myself.

Ironically, I just spent the last hour scratch glazing my sidecovers prior to spraying them with sandable primer.

[Schweisshund]

what is scratch glazing? Is there a way to remove paint from plastic parts without blistering the plastic or otherwise damaging it?

[Nessism]

I've never heard of using clear first and the factory paint systems recommend against such ass-backwards layering.

Go to the PPG website and read the technical manuals. Follow their directions, or Dupont, or HOC if you prefer. If you are painting over an existing base of paint there are some semi-clear sealers that exist but normally it's best to use a two part epoxy primer as the first layer.

[txironhead]

Scratch glaze is a type of body filler used to fill in small scratches and low spots. It comes in a tube available at most auto parts stores. It's only meant for small imperfections, which is what I had on the side covers.

I've seen paint stripper for plastic bumpers at Wal-Mart, but the only thing I really trust for paint removal on plastic is 320-600 grit sandpaper, used by hand. If the previous paint is adhered properly, you may be able to just scuff it up and primer over it. If it's flaking or peeling off, scrubbing it with a scotchbrite pad or stiff brush will get the loose stuff off, then sand it.

[rickt]

I took a quick look at the Dupli-Color 'Paint Shop product.' It's appears to be an acrylic lacquer. As I described in my earlier post, lacquers are not particularly toxic and do not contain isocyanates. You can obtain a very nice finish with lacquer (I would spray several color coats followed by 3-10 coats of clear). The clear can be wet-sanded and polished to a very high gloss.
The main problems with lacquer:
Durability is much worse than with catalyzed paints.
Glycol (Dot 2/3) brake fluid will dissolve the paint.
They probably can be obtained in only a very limited number of colors. (Dupli-Color appears to offer less than 10 colors).

The positives are:
Easy to spray.
No fresh air supply needed.
Dries very quickly so trash in paint is minimal
Easy to sand and polish.
Can be repaired easily.

I would still recommend using a charcoal respirator since introducing organic solvents through the lungs is never a good thing.

rickt

[LeeGS550E]

what is scratch glazing? Is there a way to remove paint from plastic parts without blistering the plastic or otherwise damaging it?

I repainted the same plastics that you have ('83 550E), and I used my random orbital air sander with 200 grit pads on the plastic portions. When I got all the way through the paint, the pads tended to leave a rough surface on the plastic. I used Rustoleum plastic primer that I found at lowes...a few coast of this with a few sandings in between with about 400 grit paper, and then the basecoat clearcoat. They came out fine, very smooth, and the paint seems very flexible...no problems after 5 months.

[rickt]

What would be your recommendation for safety precautions for the garage mechanics?

Examples : What type of mask - brandname? How often should filters be replaced? What type of airflow -Fans?

Even though many who read this may already know certain safety precautions for custom painting - I am a babe in the woods - and others are as well. It would be nice to have a detailed list of safety precautions for this task.

Thanks in advance.

For the occasional painter who does not wish to invest in a fresh air system, both 3M and AOSafety(AEARO Company) sell cartridge-type respirators that are NIOSH approved. Just be sure to purchase the cartridges for organic vapors as there are several other cartridge types available that will not offer proper protection.

The cartridges are not terribly expensive so I would tend to change them every time I spray. Spraying is best done with active ventilation - I use three floor-type house fans at the edge of the garage door to pull the vapors out of the garage. I always try to spray when neighbors and pets are not nearby.

The most painful problem with catalyzed paints is the drying time. Any junk that is floating around in the air (insects, dust particles, etc.) will find its way into the freshly sprayed paint. Most clears and solid color single-stage paints can be wet-sanded and polished after drying and this will eliminate the majority of "junk" in the paint. This is not possible with enamels where you get what is sprayed.

Hope this helps.
rickt

[rickt]

Never heard of spraying clear first, always used sealer primer myself.

Ironically, I just spent the last hour scratch glazing my sidecovers prior to spraying them with sandable primer.

I can't imagine any reason for spraying clear first. The purpose of a primer or primer surfacer is to bond strongly to the metal or existing paint and provide a foundation for subsequent color/clear coats. All modern catalyzed primers and primer/surfacers will seal the surface against anything underneath bleeding through. Most professionals tend to apply a good primer first, then filler, then a second coat of pimer or primer/surfacer.

rickt

[Schweisshund]

Ok I went to walmart tonight (because they are open 24 hours) and looked for Duplicolor products. The only duplicolor products this wal-mart carried was for truck liners (Guys, I live in hillbilly territory). In any case, I went to look at the House of Kolor paints I mentioned earlier and came to find out they are automotive paints but used for an airbrush and reduced accordingly. I really like the wide variety of colors to choose from House of Kolor, they have mettalics, candies, pearlescents - you name it they had it. I also looked at the rustoleum products as well. I will be repainting both of my motorcycles and have already decided to paint my Honda Nighthawk black with metallic silver graphics. Any recommendations for Rustoleum paints? Is it good product?

I do know that advance auto, pep boys and autozone carry the dupli - color products but they were not open. I have a LOT of prep work to do before I actually get any painting done. I have ordered some parts for both motorcycles and they are en route. While I am waiting I am gonna go ahead and do some prep work.

I was able to pick up a product called "Bondo Glazing and Spot Putty" It says I can use this on metal, wood, fiberglass and sanded primer and paint. Is this also good for plastic side covers? I also got plastic spreaders of various sizes to apply this product.

I picked up a red cream hardener (Bondo product) as I already have a can of Bondo but no hardener.

I also got a Black & Decker 5" Sanding & Polishing kit for a drill, 3M wetordry sandpaper assorted 220-320-400, paint thinner and tack cloth.

I also got a coke - all of this cost $23.00

I think what I am gonna do at some point is get an aluminum can and test Dupli-color products and House of Kolor paint and see if it is any good and if it is worth painting my Suzuki with. There is a reason why I want a bright color for this bike (breaking in a new rider and want people to see this bike on the road). That leaves me with four colors that really reach out and grab your attention - neon yellow, Kosmos red, fluorescent green, and bright orange. I know ... please spare me the criticism. :-D

[txironhead]

And don't forget the different color primers! Perfect for finding low spots. I prefer alternating light grey and dark grey, but sometimes I'll alternate grey and rust color. I finally got the side covers smoothed out, little bit of sandable primer to double check, then sealer primer and paint. I haven't decided exactly what paint to use yet, I have a weak little pancake compressor that will run an airbrush but not a full-blown paint gun. I may get my brother to paint it, he's got more experience plus the advantage of a full FBO hanger to operate in. He just got done painting a Bell helicopter the other day. Too bad I don't want my motorcycle three-tone blue, he had paint left over......

Now that the side covers are done, I guess it's time to give in and order that POR-15 tank liner kit. That's one thing we haven't covered in this post: Line the tank BEFORE painting it! Or acid etch or whatever process you're going to use to prep your tank. The same stuff that takes the varnish, old liner and rust out of your tank will destroy even the best paint job. Still can't find phosphoric acid locally, all the concrete etcher at Lowe's and Home Depot is crappy environmentally-friendly junk with absolutely no phosphoric acid in it. Not even the industrial supply stores here carry it. The strongest stuff the paint shop had was Ospho, which is a weaker acid mix and won't completely get rid of the rust. I'd bead blast the inside, but then you run the risk of having grit in the tank and not being 100% sure you got the rust in the seams, etc.

[Schweisshund]

This might be a stupid question but ....

Will battery acid work? I have plenty left over in plastic containers when I got new batteries for the honda and suzuki. Just curious if anyone has ever lined their tanks with it before and if it is strong enough to remove rust and varnish. You can buy the stuff at any autoparts store for about 5 bucks.

[Nessism]

Will battery acid work? I have plenty left over in plastic containers when I got new batteries for the honda and suzuki. Just curious if anyone has ever lined their tanks with it before and if it is strong enough to remove rust and varnish. You can buy the stuff at any autoparts store for about 5 bucks.

Negative on the battery acid. You want phosphoric acid for cleaning metal.

Regarding the Duplicolor and HOC hobby paint you mention, they will look okay but the first time gas hits the surface it will soften the paint pronto. The catalyzed paints are far more gas resistant, and more scratch/chip resistant as well. If you just want to get some bright color on the bike, and have it look decent, there was a post a while back about someone that used Rustolium paint on a car...using a foam brush to apply. At any rate, the paint can be color sanded and polished according to the link provided. Might be a reasonable approach as long as you don't have too high an expectation.

[txironhead]

Would that apply to the Dupli-Color Engine Enamel as well? Seems like they'd make the engine paint more chemical resistant. I've used it on bike and car engines for years with outstanding results. Of course, I'm not in the habit of pouring gasoline all over my engines.......