Shaft or Chain... that's the question...

[bwringer]

What shaft noise are you talking about? My GS's shaft drive is pretty much noiseless, as are all the others I've seen and ridden.

Also, what's all this leaking you're talking about? Mine has a whole buttload of miles with no leaks.

I think you may be confusing Suzuki's GS shaft drive system for BMW's "explode at random" system.

[willie]

I'm in the middle of replacing the secondary gears on my 1100G. On a previous post, I extolled the virtues of shaft drive. Having read all the responses though, AND, dealing with reassembling the drivetrain on my G, I've got to admit that chain drive does have its advantages.
Willie in TN

[reddirtrider]

Chain all the way. Shafts weigh more, cost more, are more complex (that's three strikes and I haven't even started) - they torque load the rear, and they look ugly. No real motorcycle would have a shaft. Put a couple more wheels on it.

Shafts? Nope - not for me - never.

[TheCafeKid]

I'm in the middle of replacing the secondary gears on my 1100G. On a previous post, I extolled the virtues of shaft drive. Having read all the responses though, AND, dealing with reassembling the drivetrain on my G, I've got to admit that chain drive does have its advantages.
Willie in TN

Thats the thing. Yes, they are LESS likely to break, or whatever, BUT, when a shaftie DOES break, you are F-ed pretty hard. Its either expensive, time consuming, or in most cases BOTH. And god help you if it happens WAYYY out in the middle of nowhere. Again, ive done it a dozen times or more, but BWringer saved my ass big time when my 1100G stripped out its SECOND inner hub gear in KY. I was seriously hundreds of miles from nowhere, and would have been seriously screwed if it wasnt for him and a couple of other awesome GSRs

[Grandpa]

Chain all the way. Shafts weigh more, cost more, are more complex (that's three strikes and I haven't even started) - they torque load the rear, and they look ugly. No real motorcycle would have a shaft. Put a couple more wheels on it.

Shafts? Nope - not for me - never.

First-class Bullsh1t!

I suppose not one Moto Guzzi or BMW is a real motorcycle either, eh? And the GS shafties whose owners share this forum do not ride real motorcycles, eh? And, of course, my Yamaha Venture is a figment of my imagination -- it couldn't be real. A V-Max isn't real, and neither is an FJR Yamaha, or a Kaw Concours.

One thing is to say that shaft drive is not for you.

Yet another is to come with such asinine statement as "no real motorcycle would have a shaft."

One more small item -- never say never. Some day you may grow up and want one of those fake, unreal, imaginary motorcycles that are propelled via a shaft.

Ride what you want, chain or shaft or belt. Just don't tell me that only chain-drive motorcycles are real. Enough of that B.S.

One final comment: Most of us who ride shaft-driven motorcycles have also ridden chain-driven motorcycles. From 1970 to 1979 I rode chain-driven motorcycles -- all shafties for the last 30 years. I bet that most of you chain lovers have never seriously, or for any length of time, ridden a shaft-driven bike. Our decision to ride shaft-driven motorcycles is mostly rational, based on experience. So, go ahead and enjoy your chain; just don't come up with stupid statements like these!

Nick Diaz
Middletown, MD

[Suzuki_Don]

wow !!! someone pulled his CHAIN

[Nessism]

Those comments struck me a tongue in cheek.

Regarding this debate, it's like Coke or Pepsi in my mind. Both are similar and people that make a big fuss have too much time on their hands.

[derwood]

I'l chime in... Don't give a ratsass, whatever the bike comes with, chain,shaft, or belt they all work well, good enough for me anyways. none have ever been a real deal breaker or maker... 2cents please

[reddirtrider]

First-class Bullsh1t!

I suppose not one Moto Guzzi or BMW is a real motorcycle either, eh? And the GS shafties whose owners share this forum do not ride real motorcycles, eh? And, of course, my Yamaha Venture is a figment of my imagination -- it couldn't be real. A V-Max isn't real, and neither is an FJR Yamaha, or a Kaw Concours.

One thing is to say that shaft drive is not for you.

Yet another is to come with such asinine statement as "no real motorcycle would have a shaft."

One more small item -- never say never. Some day you may grow up and want one of those fake, unreal, imaginary motorcycles that are propelled via a shaft.

Ride what you want, chain or shaft or belt. Just don't tell me that only chain-drive motorcycles are real. Enough of that B.S.

One final comment: Most of us who ride shaft-driven motorcycles have also ridden chain-driven motorcycles. From 1970 to 1979 I rode chain-driven motorcycles -- all shafties for the last 30 years. I bet that most of you chain lovers have never seriously, or for any length of time, ridden a shaft-driven bike. Our decision to ride shaft-driven motorcycles is mostly rational, based on experience. So, go ahead and enjoy your chain; just don't come up with stupid statements like these!

Nick Diaz
Middletown, MD

Hey Nick good to hear from ya again, and it's always nice to see the fire in the shafties eyes when they feel slighted.

You guys just have a different philosophy when it comes to ridding I guess. I like it simple and elegant. A chain is just that, shafts are for automobiles (and yes it was tongue in cheek).

[salty_monk]

Or for beating chain guys over the head with..

I wonder what would hurt more in a fight, a drive shaft over the head or being whipped with a 630 chain.....

[reddirtrider]

Or for beating chain guys over the head with..

I wonder what would hurt more in a fight, a drive shaft over the head or being whipped with a 630 chain.....

A chain reaches further. One more strike against the shaft.

[noobie]

What shaft noise are you talking about? My GS's shaft drive is pretty much noiseless, as are all the others I've seen and ridden.

Also, what's all this leaking you're talking about? Mine has a whole buttload of miles with no leaks.

I think you may be confusing Suzuki's GS shaft drive system for BMW's "explode at random" system.

Not talking about the GS shaft system, because I have no experience with it, but shaft system in general. The only problem-and-leak-free shaft system I had experience till now was the Nighthawk's.

And every shaft produces a noise because of all the parts that are moving and turning, especially at high speed. I don't know what the GS's shafts are like, so either it's more noise-isolated or you just got used to the noise and don't hear it anymore, but I do know I hear the shaft on every shaft-bike I ride.

The Virago was a fantastic bike and if I find a 1100 for a good price I'll buy it again, but I could hear the shaft even over the open direct exhausts. And, yes, there was nothing wrong with the shaft and the oil was completely new (we put it in when buying the bike), it's just that a shaft produces noise. So much so and such a strange noise that I went to my bike-mechanic-uncle for him to see what the hell was wrong with the bike and have him tell me not to worry, it's just the shaft.

And, yup, shaft isn't completely-maintenance-free... you gotta change the oil and check the seals. Problem is if the PO-s never changed it and you buy such a bike and don't remember to immediately change it yourself. If that happens the shaft will seize and you'll count the damage in hundreds. IF you're lucky not to get physically hurt when that happens. On the other hand, with the chain there is always a danger of it falling apart and blocking your rear wheel, but if it's a quality chain and you maintain it, and was grafted together correctly then the danger of it falling apart is very small.

Final summary: both drive systems have a danger of failing and in the end it's all a matter of personal preference which one you want.

Or for beating chain guys over the head with..

I wonder what would hurt more in a fight, a drive shaft over the head or being whipped with a 630 chain.....

Before you'd even manage to lift, much less raise your heavy shaft over your head to attain torque to conk someone with it (and yes it has problems with torque there too ) the chain-guy would've already hit you thrice. And if he knew what he was doing he would've put you out of the fight with the first hit.

It's not the level of the pain, but it's where it hurts...

I suppose not one Moto Guzzi or BMW is a real motorcycle either, eh?

My friend, you picked two hells of bad examples.

Moto Guzzi? Some of the most unreliable motorcycles on the market. Sure, they're a symbol of social status and how much money you have with how expensive they are, but they're bottomless-money-pits when it comes to running them. Electrical problems, engine problems, shaft problems, electronic problems, fuel-system problems,... you name it and Italians have problems with it. All the time, not just occasionally.

Italians are the best designers out there, but when it comes to the build quality and reliability they're at the bottom of the ladder. Italy is our direct neighbor and we got a lot of Italian bikes here, Ducatis (know 4 guys with Ducatis, all new bikes and they all had to have them repaired in the first month of ownership... and if you want to change your bike under warranty, you'll have to PAY ADDITIONALLY for a new bike because Ducati won't exchange it bike-for-a-bike even if the bike is 1 week old and the problem is covered with warranty - happened with a guy who bought a new 1098 and had to give it back, to exchange it for a new one, because of a faulty fuel system... had to pay 3000 EUR for a new same bike even though his was only a month old...), Aprilias (total bottom), Moto Guzzis, Benellis, Moto Marinis,...

They've got two things in common: they're VERY expensive to buy AND to run and they're unreliable. And they have a drinking problem. The bikes, of course

BMWs on the other hand are known for their final drives being unreliable. Bwringer alredy mentioned the name of the phenomenon. Or, of one of the problems. It's not as well-publicized because BMW puts a lot of money into keeping it secret (plus there's also the BMW fans who out of loyalty won't admit it, much less spread it around - my other uncle is a BMW fan so I know the type), but they break down just as much as any other bike. Especially the shafts on the bigger models. BMW is an expensive and luxury mark, but it's got to mean something that you can't see a BMW car older than the E36 3-series on the road. While you see plenty of 25 and 30 years old Mercs. Ooops, wrong thread

Lastly: people, please calm down, this is a tongue-in-cheek affair, no need to get a stroke over it!

[Grandpa]

OK, guys, I didn't realize it was a tongue-in-cheek comment, so I'm sorry that I over-reacted.

Noobie, believe it or not, I agree with your comments about Moto Guzzi. I owned a Guzzi between 1979 and 86. After the third u-joint failed on it, at only 80,000 miles, I decided to look for a more reliable motorcycle. That's when I bought my first GS850G.

I also agree with your views on BMW's.

Shafty Nick Diaz
Middletown, MD

[reddirtrider]

OK, guys, I didn't realize it was a tongue-in-cheek comment, so I'm sorry that I over-reacted.

Noobie, believe it or not, I agree with your comments about Moto Guzzi. I owned a Guzzi between 1979 and 86. After the third u-joint failed on it, at only 80,000 miles, I decided to look for a more reliable motorcycle. That's when I bought my first GS850G.

I also agree with your views on BMW's.

Shafty Nick Diaz
Middletown, MD

No worries Nick, you old guys get cranky when the meat is too tough.
(I have no idea what that means, but it sounded good)

[bwringer]

... Not talking about the GS shaft system, because I have no experience with it, but shaft system in general. The only problem-and-leak-free shaft system I had experience till now was the Nighthawk's.

And every shaft produces a noise because of all the parts that are moving and turning, especially at high speed. I don't know what the GS's shafts are like, so either it's more noise-isolated or you just got used to the noise and don't hear it anymore, but I do know I hear the shaft on every shaft-bike I ride.

So you have no experience with GS shafties, yet you're willing to make a few general guesses based on a few inferior and unrelated examples? Sheesh...

Again, Suzuki was the first manufacturer to do shaft drive right, followed closely as you noted by Honda -- the Nighthawk/Sabre/Magna setup was pretty decent too, although IIRC they had more of a problem with jacking effects. And it sounds like the Honda setup makes noise, whereas the Suzuki GS shaft drive system does not.



This debate thing is kinda fun... been a while since we've had a good spleen-clearing shaft/chain kerfluffle.