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EDIT 2/27/2014 : Read about the latest SERIES R/R's that are available
Stator Pages
READ ABOUT my install of the COMPU-FIRE 3 PHASE SERIES R/R
See also the ORIGINAL GS Charging System Health With pics here (PDF file <1MB) Thanks Cliff
Want to just get a feel for how the charging is working? Do a Quick_Test
5/30/2011 moved the background here
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More grounding background moved here.
Summary of products I use to prepare and maintain electrical, clean and prevent surface corrosion.
Recommended Products for Preparing Electrical Connections
START HERE: The three steps to GS Charging health
STEP #1.) GOOD R/R CONNECTIONS On the typical non sense wire R/R there are 5 wires. Make sure these have very good connections to the rest of the system by either:
I prefer #2 as I seldom have to remove the connections and the solder keeps out corrosion.
Just for reference, the 5 wires are:
R/R (+) - RED charging system output
R/R (-) - Black (typically with a ring lug) Charging system return
3 stator wires which are W/G, Y and W/B if OEM or typically all Yellow if say from an aftermarket stator
Here is a picture of an 81 GS750E with stock harness and an OEM R/R . First thing I did was cut off the burned and melted OEM connectors from the harness. The original OEM R/R was fired so it was thrown out. These connectons avoid the stator loop that goes through the left hand headlamp switch.
There are a few different fuse box styles, some better than others. If you cant clean the contacts tehn the fuse holders will probbaly over heat melt the plastic and short out. On the later E bikes after 80-81 the fuse holders are not that bad after cleaning and resoldering the crimps. If your fuse box is marginal you might consider wiring R/R(+) directly to the battery (thru an in line fuse)
This is a picture of the mounted R/R
If you have a 6 wire the same applies, you are just going to have to find a low impedance switched power source. You can do a search, but a coil mod relay provides about the best option. Otherwise hook it right to the battery and make sure to not let the GS set for long periods of days
Here is a simplified diagram showing the connections for a 6 wire R/R. Just omit the Brown wire for a 5 wire R/R. The R/R has doubled up wires for both (+) and (-) so it is actually an 8 wire as shown.
NOTE IN LEGEND BELOW ASSUME THE MAIN FUSE 30 A IS ONLY 15 Amps as per stock GS. SORRY WAS OVERSIGHT AS NOT MY ARTWORK
STEP #2.) GOOD R/R GROUNDS Make sure that the R/R(-) is properly grounded to: harness,battery,frame.
I have described a single point grounding approach that minimizes the amount of current that flows between the battery (-) and the R/R (-) connections. By doing that there is less susceptibility to resistance due to bad connections and corrosion and the R/R should charge the battery more accurately.
While there a different ways to implement the R/R grounding scheme, the way Suzuki originally implemented the GS electrical charging systems is confused, inconsistent and not ideal in any sense of the word. I provided the theory of why the one below is best, I will not rehash that here. Just follow the directions below:
Quick Discussion of Single Point Grounds:
***NOTE:The Main objective in picking the location of the SPG is to minimize the length of wire between the SPG and the R/R(-). Other than that it could be located anywhere including a plastic mount or floating in the air. Battery(-) post as a SPG is generally not recommended as there are plenty of places closer to the R/R(-) (all less than 1' using 14 AWG ground wire).
By picking one of the R/R mounting bolts as the single point ground point, the R/R(-) wire can be very short, the mounting plate is automatically grounded and all of the return current wires can be tied securely together at a single point. Here are the connections
Here is a matching picture on a GS750EX, it will work well for most all E's at least. The layout may be a little different on the G's and L's but the ideas will be the same. Compare grounds to stock in attached pic.
Here is a GS1100ED done similarly; Here the harness ground lead would not stretch all the way so I just bolted it to the other side of the R/R. R/R should probably be turned the other side around but all wires would fit the same way. All currents from the charging system (leaving the R/R (+) red wire have to return to the R/R(-) black wire. Some of these currents come back from the harness B/W, some from the engine , some from frame return loads. By connecting all of these as close as possible to the R/R (-) you have created a "single point ground" at this point. In this way the current that runs from the Battery (-) to the R/R(-) is only carrying the battery charging current and nothing else. That is the real reason for having a single point ground. There is no current return sharing of the various loads.
Finally STEP #3.) Perform Stator Paper Checks. The stator pages checks are not perfect, but they are designed to help you through a process of elimination in determining what is wrong with your charging system. The good news about doing steps #1 and #2 above first, is that when the stator pages say to check your connections you know you already have done it. Here is the update.
Make sure you do these two tests and report the results for diagnosis.
STEP #2 MEASURE POSITIVE LEAD VOLTAGE DROP
STEP #3 MEASURE NEGATIVE LEAD VOLTAGE DROP
Link to Revised PHASE A of Stator Pages:
ORIGINAL_STATOR_PAGES
The most important thing to do checks at 5000 RPM which is typical cruising speed. You might find that you will need to clean your fuse box to get the positive side voltage drops below 0.2V at 5000 RPM. In steps #1 above you should of gotten most of the connections between the R/R(+) to battery (+) in good shape except the fuse box.
Recommendations on products for maintaining your harness.
And here are some updates with background to the Phase B tests that focus on the stator alone.
A revised test is at this link; The actual test is on Page 6 of 9. We added the leg to ground AC voltage test as this helps isolate insulation breakdowns to ground using the relatively high 60-80 VAC stator voltage when it is open loop.
Link to Revised PHASE B of Stator Pages with discussion of testing methods:
http://www.keepandshare.com/doc/3977...4-pm-649k?da=y
Some links to prior posts:
Stator Pages
READ ABOUT my install of the COMPU-FIRE 3 PHASE SERIES R/R
See also the ORIGINAL GS Charging System Health With pics here (PDF file <1MB) Thanks Cliff
Want to just get a feel for how the charging is working? Do a Quick_Test
5/30/2011 moved the background here
More grounding background moved here.
Summary of products I use to prepare and maintain electrical, clean and prevent surface corrosion.
Recommended Products for Preparing Electrical Connections
START HERE: The three steps to GS Charging health
STEP #1.) GOOD R/R CONNECTIONS On the typical non sense wire R/R there are 5 wires. Make sure these have very good connections to the rest of the system by either:
- (1) High quality contacts (like spades with dielectric grease)
- (2) Direct physically twist and solder with shrink tubing.
I prefer #2 as I seldom have to remove the connections and the solder keeps out corrosion.
Just for reference, the 5 wires are:
R/R (+) - RED charging system output
R/R (-) - Black (typically with a ring lug) Charging system return
3 stator wires which are W/G, Y and W/B if OEM or typically all Yellow if say from an aftermarket stator
Here is a picture of an 81 GS750E with stock harness and an OEM R/R . First thing I did was cut off the burned and melted OEM connectors from the harness. The original OEM R/R was fired so it was thrown out. These connectons avoid the stator loop that goes through the left hand headlamp switch.
There are a few different fuse box styles, some better than others. If you cant clean the contacts tehn the fuse holders will probbaly over heat melt the plastic and short out. On the later E bikes after 80-81 the fuse holders are not that bad after cleaning and resoldering the crimps. If your fuse box is marginal you might consider wiring R/R(+) directly to the battery (thru an in line fuse)
This is a picture of the mounted R/R
If you have a 6 wire the same applies, you are just going to have to find a low impedance switched power source. You can do a search, but a coil mod relay provides about the best option. Otherwise hook it right to the battery and make sure to not let the GS set for long periods of days
Here is a simplified diagram showing the connections for a 6 wire R/R. Just omit the Brown wire for a 5 wire R/R. The R/R has doubled up wires for both (+) and (-) so it is actually an 8 wire as shown.
NOTE IN LEGEND BELOW ASSUME THE MAIN FUSE 30 A IS ONLY 15 Amps as per stock GS. SORRY WAS OVERSIGHT AS NOT MY ARTWORK
STEP #2.) GOOD R/R GROUNDS Make sure that the R/R(-) is properly grounded to: harness,battery,frame.
I have described a single point grounding approach that minimizes the amount of current that flows between the battery (-) and the R/R (-) connections. By doing that there is less susceptibility to resistance due to bad connections and corrosion and the R/R should charge the battery more accurately.
While there a different ways to implement the R/R grounding scheme, the way Suzuki originally implemented the GS electrical charging systems is confused, inconsistent and not ideal in any sense of the word. I provided the theory of why the one below is best, I will not rehash that here. Just follow the directions below:
Quick Discussion of Single Point Grounds:
***NOTE:The Main objective in picking the location of the SPG is to minimize the length of wire between the SPG and the R/R(-). Other than that it could be located anywhere including a plastic mount or floating in the air. Battery(-) post as a SPG is generally not recommended as there are plenty of places closer to the R/R(-) (all less than 1' using 14 AWG ground wire).
By picking one of the R/R mounting bolts as the single point ground point, the R/R(-) wire can be very short, the mounting plate is automatically grounded and all of the return current wires can be tied securely together at a single point. Here are the connections
- #1: Ground R/R(-) to case and side plate
- #2: The shortest wire to a frame bolt
- #3: The shortest wire to the Battery (-)
- #4: Connects to the (B/W) harness negative ring lugs (typically the one attached at the solenoid mounting bolt). You can leave the other harness ground ring lug (B/W) where it normally is picking up the battery box ground.
Here is a matching picture on a GS750EX, it will work well for most all E's at least. The layout may be a little different on the G's and L's but the ideas will be the same. Compare grounds to stock in attached pic.
Here is a GS1100ED done similarly; Here the harness ground lead would not stretch all the way so I just bolted it to the other side of the R/R. R/R should probably be turned the other side around but all wires would fit the same way. All currents from the charging system (leaving the R/R (+) red wire have to return to the R/R(-) black wire. Some of these currents come back from the harness B/W, some from the engine , some from frame return loads. By connecting all of these as close as possible to the R/R (-) you have created a "single point ground" at this point. In this way the current that runs from the Battery (-) to the R/R(-) is only carrying the battery charging current and nothing else. That is the real reason for having a single point ground. There is no current return sharing of the various loads.
Finally STEP #3.) Perform Stator Paper Checks. The stator pages checks are not perfect, but they are designed to help you through a process of elimination in determining what is wrong with your charging system. The good news about doing steps #1 and #2 above first, is that when the stator pages say to check your connections you know you already have done it. Here is the update.
Make sure you do these two tests and report the results for diagnosis.
STEP #2 MEASURE POSITIVE LEAD VOLTAGE DROP
STEP #3 MEASURE NEGATIVE LEAD VOLTAGE DROP
Link to Revised PHASE A of Stator Pages:
ORIGINAL_STATOR_PAGES
The most important thing to do checks at 5000 RPM which is typical cruising speed. You might find that you will need to clean your fuse box to get the positive side voltage drops below 0.2V at 5000 RPM. In steps #1 above you should of gotten most of the connections between the R/R(+) to battery (+) in good shape except the fuse box.
Recommendations on products for maintaining your harness.
And here are some updates with background to the Phase B tests that focus on the stator alone.
A revised test is at this link; The actual test is on Page 6 of 9. We added the leg to ground AC voltage test as this helps isolate insulation breakdowns to ground using the relatively high 60-80 VAC stator voltage when it is open loop.
Link to Revised PHASE B of Stator Pages with discussion of testing methods:
http://www.keepandshare.com/doc/3977...4-pm-649k?da=y
Some links to prior posts:
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